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Thread: What are you hoping to see more or less of in 2020 on the main Dappered.com page?

  1. #91
    Super Moderator LesserBlackDog's Avatar
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    Idk, someone claiming that a company utilizing exclusively white models - except for the token black minstrel entertainer - is excusable because they're just "marketing to white people" is a pretty trash argument. I find it a pretty trash implication that companies marketing to me are justified in scrubbing all diversity from their materials because it would apparently be normal for me, a white person, to be turned off by the very existence of people of color in such materials.

    Just because a person can express their viewpoint without profanity or personal attacks doesn't mean their viewpoint itself isn't inherently problematic and disturbing.
    Ben

  2. #92
    Varsity Member facelessghost's Avatar
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    Someone please close this thread now before it turns into the most recently cited thread.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesserBlackDog View Post
    Idk, someone claiming that a company utilizing exclusively white models - except for the token black minstrel entertainer - is excusable because they're just "marketing to white people" is a pretty trash argument. I find it a pretty trash implication that companies marketing to me are justified in scrubbing all diversity from their materials because it would apparently be normal for me, a white person, to be turned off by the very existence of people of color in such materials.

    Just because a person can express their viewpoint without profanity or personal attacks doesn't mean their viewpoint itself isn't inherently problematic and disturbing.
    I didn't read the part where he said that. I just read the part where he said "You must be fun at parties."

    I also don't think that people should be censored because their arguments are poor. (I also find it strange that anyone would think that Vineyard Vines consciously or actively excluded black people. It is after based in one of the whitest parts of the country. It would take effort to ensure diversity in their catalogs.)

    I think that banning views that are disturbing or problematic is a poor standard because basically everything is problematic and what disturbs people varies. Especially as people tend not to assume good faith and easily misunderstand one another.

    I mean we are adults and should be able to talk over things like adults. That means being able to disagree. One argument for censoring of certain opinions is that these opinions hurt vulnerable people, but every time someone says anything politically incorrect, it is cited by the critics, exposing it to more people. It is sort of like a Striesand effect.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryn View Post
    I didn't read the part where he said that. I just read the part where he said "You must be fun at parties."

    I also don't think that people should be censored because their arguments are poor. (I also find it strange that anyone would think that Vineyard Vines consciously or actively excluded black people. It is after based in one of the whitest parts of the country. It would take effort to ensure diversity in their catalogs.)
    Iím sorry, I donít find that a great rationale. Iím doubting that their advertising catalogue is determined precisely by location, so demographic plays slightly or not at all.

    I do find it more compelling to say that their advertising turns me off in the same way a glib or humorous posting turns me off from the Dappered main page. And while they may not fully realize that theyíve excluded male models of color (the main page featured a female model of color, btw) from their advertising, it is a valid reason to not purchase their product. Much in the same way that I do not enjoy slim fit suit coats. While that may not bother others, it does bother me, and I choose to spend my money elsewhere on things that I find agreeable. I do not require that you do so, and if asked, Iíll be happy to explain.


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  5. #95
    Varsity Member JT10000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryn View Post
    That's a pretty tame reaction. Not everyone disagreeing with you is trash.
    Insulting a black person for simply stating their own disgust with a company regarding race in it's marketing may seem like no big deal in isolation, but it's part of a pattern of small aggressions we experience in life. The message is "don't talk about racism" in largely white spaces. It's trash. A tiny piece of trash, but trash nonetheless.

    I've got no big problem with people not noticing or caring about VV's racist marketing (in the past - they're since improved) if the issue doesn't affect them. I wish they'd care (and if they're in a position of responsibility they should act on the issue), but if it's not their thing that's their business. You do you. But jumping up and pushing back when that racism is called out is terrible.

    Also, "everyone"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ryn View Post
    I think that banning views that are disturbing or problematic is a poor standard because basically everything is problematic and what disturbs people varies.
    It's amazing how under threat white guys who want to jump up and denounce calls of racism (and sexism) in marketing and the world are. This PC stuff is really oppressive, right? They're just getting censored all over the place and it's so hard for them these days. Really rough.
    Last edited by JT10000; February 21st, 2020 at 05:29 AM.

  6. #96
    Varsity Member JT10000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryn View Post
    I also find it strange that anyone would think that Vineyard Vines consciously or actively excluded black people. It is after based in one of the whitest parts of the country.
    No, it's not one of the whitest parts of the country. That statement is trash.

    The percentage of black people is slightly lower than the national average for sure, but quite high for a "remote" county and small towns.
    Stats

    https://statisticalatlas.com/place/M...-and-Ethnicity

    Beyond that, it is literally historically known as a resort and cultural area for black people. From Dorothy West (look her up) living there to Harry Belafonte vacationing there to the Obamas buying a second home there last year. Here is some history/culture:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/22/d...community.html
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...l8oJ_Br5sdkBXW

    I've met and know people in the story and the videos, including my mom, whose parents started taking her to Martha's Vineyard in the 1940s because it was pointedly one of the few vacation communities along the East Coast that was welcoming to black people. Her parents retired there, as did she and my father. My brother lives there.

    Also, Native American people also are culturally and politically prominent there and have been on the island for millennia.

    So you've just defended racially exclusive marketing by lying or BSing about actual racial demographics. Proving my point that there is trash here in the Threads too.

    Well done.

    PS - My initial critique was about a catalog shot on an island in the Caribbean with what appeared to be models. I don't expect you to know that, but feel it is worth mentioning. Given that fact, it's worth noting that there are lot of brown people in the Caribbean. There are brown models. And clothing companies often use models....

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