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Thread: Selvedge question

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    Selvedge question

    Are the recently reviewed Target (and Amazon for that matter) selvedge jeans also raw?

    If they are not raw, is there an advantage to just selvedge?

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    Varsity Member Nandyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cbiscuit View Post
    Are the recently reviewed Target (and Amazon for that matter) selvedge jeans also raw?

    If they are not raw, is there an advantage to just selvedge?
    Most likely not raw. Just aesthetics, and you can only tell it's selvedge if you roll your pants

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    Selvedge and raw are two separate unrelated things. Selvedge is how the denim was manufactured. Raw is if the denim has been washed/rinsed already to get rid of excess dye.

    Selvedge does not inherently have a quality advantage over standard jeans as the only difference is in how the edge of the fabric is secured. Selvedge is usually done in smaller batches though and thus can have better QC and better raw materials than standard mass produced denim.

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    Selvedge denim is made on shuttle looms (a somewhat antiquated production technique) which results in a self binding edge, that looks white. This means that edge holds itself together without additional stitching. The weaving technique for creating the fabric makes it look a little different from denim made on more modern standard machines...it's not a hugely noticeable difference IMO but it's there. The self binding edge - or selvedge - is white. When you roll the cuffs on selvedge jeans you can see this white edge at the seam letting everyone know that you are wearing selvedge jeans. The denim is often more expensive and has a tighter weave due to the production process. Non selvedge denim is made on projectile looms and has an edge that must be finished with stitching to prevent it from unraveling at the edge. Either weaving technique can produce a high quality fabric but manufacturing on projectile looms is cheaper so the denim is less costly.

    Raw denim, as stated above, is denim that has been dyed with a natural indigo dye and then not rinsed. It is often sanforized and mercerized - sanforizing is a chemical treatment that reduces shrinkage. Mercerizing changes the sheen. Because the excess die hasn't been washed out, raw denim will develop customized fading faster - the excess dye will wear off wear areas unevenly a lot faster and hence you will get fading more quickly. Selvedge denim is often raw but not always. If you get raw denim, you have to know whether it has been sanforized or not as it will shrink A LOT on first washing if it is not sanforized. A lot means 2 sizes or so. Sanforized denim will shrink a little - generally they say 1-3%. Keep in mind that while this doesn't sound like a lot, 3 percent of a 30 inch inseam is nearly an inch so you still want to buy them with a little extra length. Washed denim will usually have even less shrinkage.

    If you are looking for custom fades raw is better whether selvedge or not. If you want to roll your cuffs to show off the selvedge, obviously selvedge is better. If you want a lighter wash denim you can go selvedge or not, depending on your cuff rolling preference, but obviously raw jeans have not even been rinsed much less washed to fade the color so they're not available in any color but deep natural indigo. You have to do the work of fading them yourself through wear.
    Last edited by mark4; October 4th, 2018 at 08:54 AM.
    “Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.” – Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cbiscuit View Post
    Are the recently reviewed Target (and Amazon for that matter) selvedge jeans also raw?

    If they are not raw, is there an advantage to just selvedge?
    Simple answer from a non-denim head - selvedge looks better than non if you cuff them. If you don't cuff, selvedge alone gives no advantage in a cheaper brand.

    Raw means it'll wear in a unique pattern and dye your couch, chair, car interior, and other clothes in the process of its dye rubbing off. If you don't mind that, it looks pretty cool when all worn in.

    I can't listen to anything the denim-heads say because of their love for "stacks", which is to say, they like wearing their jeans 4 inches too long and pooling around their ankles. Imo, that looks HORRIBLE. Jeans (and chinos) should have only a slight break.

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    Varsity Member armedferret's Avatar
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    They're definitely not raw, but frankly I couldn't care less. For 30 bucks, I could go get some Old Navy stuff that will wear out in 6 months, or grab some of the Goodfellow stuff from Target that clearly has far better quality in stitching, and definitely will last longer. A *LOT* longer. The 14 oz weight may be a teensy bit light for four-season wear further north than I am, but not even Gustin has anything close to the value in these (and I have 3 pair from them). I'm quite happy with em.

    Hell even cheap Levi's go for more than these....and I don't have any personal reason to buy them now.

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    Varsity Member Nandyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by armedferret View Post
    They're definitely not raw, but frankly I couldn't care less. For 30 bucks, I could go get some Old Navy stuff that will wear out in 6 months, or grab some of the Goodfellow stuff from Target that clearly has far better quality in stitching, and definitely will last longer. A *LOT* longer. The 14 oz weight may be a teensy bit light for four-season wear further north than I am, but not even Gustin has anything close to the value in these (and I have 3 pair from them). I'm quite happy with em.

    Hell even cheap Levi's go for more than these....and I don't have any personal reason to buy them now.
    I dunno man, the Gustin 1968 Cone Mills is only 68 + shipping, and that factors the human cost, too, since the fabric is grown and made in the US AND sewn in the US. So value wise, I'd say Gustin's 1968 is much better. Currently no active campaign for it, but it's been popping up frequently this past year. Currently they've got the Cone khaki overdye for $79, Cone stretch for $81.

    I'm actually wearing them right now, breaking in really nicely after a year. Think I've only tub soaked/"washed" them twice.

    But $30 is < $68.
    Last edited by Nandyn; October 4th, 2018 at 12:44 PM.

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    I bought the selvedge jeans from Target a while back. They looked great and then I washed them. They shrunk and were impossibly wrinkly. I threw them away they were useless. I like the look of selvedge, but if I can't treat them like a typical pair of jeans with occasional washings then what's the point?

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    Varsity Member armedferret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nandyn View Post
    I dunno man, the Gustin 1968 Cone Mills is only 68 + shipping, and that factors the human cost, too, since the fabric is grown and made in the US AND sewn in the US. So value wise, I'd say Gustin's 1968 is much better. Currently no active campaign for it, but it's been popping up frequently this past year. Currently they've got the Cone khaki overdye for $79, Cone stretch for $81.

    I'm actually wearing them right now, breaking in really nicely after a year. Think I've only tub soaked/"washed" them twice.

    But $30 is < $68.
    Except the part where cone mills is closed now and doesn't make denim anymore.

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    Varsity Member Nandyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by armedferret View Post
    Except the part where cone mills is closed now and doesn't make denim anymore.
    Yeah, that was sad news. However, there's still stock left floating around, which is why manufacturers are able to produce new denim using Cone Mills selvedge. Course, only a matter of time until the supply runs dry and the prices start going up.

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