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Thread: Vegan Suits- help!

  1. #21
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    @CShap, one more argument in favor of the chino suit us that it will likely be unstructured, meaning there should be no canvas interlining (and so no horsehair). Obviously confirm that if you go that route.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpark View Post
    @CShap, one more argument in favor of the chino suit us that it will likely be unstructured, meaning there should be no canvas interlining (and so no horsehair). Obviously confirm that if you go that route.
    Ah that is a good point and very good to know! Thank you @dpark

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CShap View Post
    My vegan decision is an ethical one, not one of free will. But I will certainly grant my friend free will since he does not share the same ethical views as me (as much as I wish he would, that would make this much easier! ).
    Honest question: Why is wool ethically problematic? I struggle to understand why giving a sheep a haircut is ethically troubling. Leather I understand, as it requires the killing of an animal, and while I don't share that concern, I can grasp the logic behind a moral/ethical objection.

    But wool I struggle to understand, particularly because synthetics like poly are petroleum and/or coal based and could be argued to be far more harmful to the planet than a natural fiber that doesn't require the killing of an animal.

    I'm not asking you to change your beliefs or convince you of anything, I'm just generally curious.
    Last edited by BillN; March 31st, 2016 at 01:16 AM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillN View Post
    Honest question: Why is wool ethically problematic? I struggle to understand why giving a sheep a haircut is ethically troubling.
    It would be one thing if the sheep were just there and folks were out gathering their wool like so many mushrooms in the woods.

    The ethical concern isn't really about the action taken to gather the resource, it's about everything else involved... it's about the broader subject. Consider honey. Abstaining from honey isn't about not partaking in honey because there is some issue with gathering honey, there is an ethical objection to commercial production of insects, period.


    Quote Originally Posted by BillN View Post
    But wool I struggle to understand, particularly because synthetics like poly are petroleum and/or coal based and could be argued to be far more harmful to the planet than a natural fiber that doesn't require the killing of an animal.
    I'm not totally sure of this, but I think the main environmental impact of polyester isn't the actual material as much as the energy and water involved. One can make polyester from recycled plastic, yes?

    I try to make myself feel a little better about all this environmental stuff knowing that I wash with cold water, air dry, iron quickly, and hardly ever dry clean. I would speculate menswear enthusiasts in general probably practice eco-friendly laundry practices without tallying how much energy they are saving. Plus, we all wear things to death and have them fixed over and over. That all must be of some environmental benefit over the life of an article of clothing whether poly or wool.
    Last edited by ianr; March 31st, 2016 at 03:31 AM.

  5. #25
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    yeah i think you could make a case for the sheeps welfare being put in danger. i'm not sure they're exactly out for asheeps best interests.

    and i'm not even sure what they do when a sheep gets old, probably shoot it.

    there are absolutely sites that show some sheep are sometimes hurt in the production of wool. I don't know if this happens all the time, or how often, but I'm positive it's true that it happens. These emotional overwhelming sites like PETA or whatever are not shooting blanks, I think they show the worst cases a lot of times, but they do happen. http://www.theethicalman.com/wool.html


    There is not really any wool-industry-wide way of buying wool made with carefulness of sheep handling. There are some niche places but that's about it.

    I guess it's a matter of how much OK you are with that happening.


    In general, I try to buy things as responsibly as possible. I buy in USA or other first world nations where there is a little more oversight on care of workers, animal cruelty, environment etc. It also forays into ownership of a product. When I buy something in general, I try to take care of it so I won't need to make the impact of buying a new one. This becomes more possible when you avoid buying disposable poorly made goods.

    I am fully are however that my small acts of personal stewardship will probably not stop any sheep I know from coming to harm, but I do sincerely believe that by curbing excessive consumption the little tiny bit I can, it helps additional sheeps (or whatever else) from getting hurt than need to.

    But you know, this is a YMMV situation more than most other ones. This is just all my personal dogma spilling out onto the interweb that no one here probably cares about. Do what you want, feel good doing it :-)
    Last edited by evanparker; March 31st, 2016 at 08:39 AM.

  6. #26
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    The main question is how does the bride feel about it (assuming there is one...). it might cause an unnecessary stir.

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    If the groom wants all his groomsmen to wear a particular suit, I think it's up to you to either get the suit or drop out as a groomsman. I definitely don't think you should be asking the bride and groom to alter their plans to accommodate your beliefs. If you're the only one with a different suit, you'll stand out and you'll be messing up the aesthetic they have for their special day. If, at your encouragement and for your benefit, they have all the groomsmen wear different suits, then they are making a change to their wedding to accommodate you. I don't think you should put them in either situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by evanparker View Post
    In general, I try to buy things as responsibly as possible. I buy in USA or other first world nations where there is a little more oversight on care of workers, animal cruelty, environment etc. It also forays into ownership of a product. When I buy something in general, I try to take care of it so I won't need to make the impact of buying a new one. This becomes more possible when you avoid buying disposable poorly made goods.
    I think this is a point worth considering. The conditions of workers producing cheap poly suits in the third world might be worse than those of the sheep whose wool is used for a high quality wool suit.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by P J View Post
    If the groom wants all his groomsmen to wear a particular suit, I think it's up to you to either get the suit or drop out as a groomsman.
    I'd be both insulted and annoyed if I had a groomsman drop out because he was ethically opposed to my suit choice and didn't talk to me about it. A groomsman should generally be your friend, and I would certainly hope you could talk to your friend reasonably about his concerns. If after talking about the concern, both the groom and groomsman agreed the simplest/best solution was for the groomsman to withdraw from the wedding party, ok. But that should be after talking through other options. Backing out rather than discussing the concern (and asking them to alter their plans) seems like worst possible resolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by P J View Post
    I think this is a point worth considering. The conditions of workers producing cheap poly suits in the third world might be worse than those of the sheep whose wool is used for a high quality wool suit.
    No. Even places with horrible working conditions are better than the conditions sheep endure. If you treated humans the way sheep are treated, you'd be guilty of slavery and torture (psychological if not physical).

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpark View Post
    No. Even places with horrible working conditions are better than the conditions sheep endure. If you treated humans the way sheep are treated, you'd be guilty of slavery and torture (psychological if not physical).
    Abuse and forced labor are pretty much the norm in most industries that have been exported to the third world, the garment industry in particular:

    http://www.salon.com/2015/03/22/the_...posed_partner/
    http://www.free2work.org/trends/apparel2015/
    https://labs.theguardian.com/unicef-child-labour/
    http://theabolitionistsociety.org/textiles/
    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...tation/394658/

    The fact is, if you aren't diligent in researching the supply chain of every product you buy, it is pretty difficult to be sure there isn't some horrible abuse going on. Not buying wool is all well and good, but just because something is made of poly doesn't mean there aren't unacceptable industry abuses going on. I think you'd be better off getting a wool garment from a small American company that is committed to sourcing their wool humanely than getting a poly garment from a company and supply chain you know nothing about in the third world.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LosRockets View Post
    It's your friend's wedding right? Don't make him compromise for you.
    This. It's his wedding, not yours. But, hey, if he's alright with it, good for you.

    In either case, I would also vote for an unstructured cotton/chino option, since he's willing to accommodate your individual ethics to include you.

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