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Thread: The True Cause of Shoulder Divots: What actually causes shoulder divots?

  1. #11
    Junior Member 90Shilling's Avatar
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    Great post LCDR. I went suit shopping with a friend at suitsupply recently, and he tried the same two sizes in the napoli, lazio, and washington fits, and there was differing degress of shoulder divots in each fit. Sizing up and down did not affect the divot presence, but going between the various fits did. Eventually he went with the Lazio. Even more perplexing was the pant waist size, which was 36 (he normally wears 31) yet actually was within the limits of being able to be tailored due to how slim suitsupply pants run. This shoulder divot issue, along with my friend's suitsupply experience, highlights the risks in doing purely online suit shopping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 90Shilling View Post
    Great post LCDR. I went suit shopping with a friend at suitsupply recently, and he tried the same two sizes in the napoli, lazio, and washington fits, and there was differing degress of shoulder divots in each fit. Sizing up and down did not affect the divot presence, but going between the various fits did. Eventually he went with the Lazio. Even more perplexing was the pant waist size, which was 36 (he normally wears 31) yet actually was within the limits of being able to be tailored due to how slim suitsupply pants run. This shoulder divot issue, along with my friend's suitsupply experience, highlights the risks in doing purely online suit shopping.
    I avoid online suit shopping without a free returns policy, which basically limits me to suitsupply as I'm in Canada (you guys in the US have it so good for online shopping!). When you say he is a 31 waist, I assume you mean in a jean or similar, while his true waist measurment is closer to the suitsupply size? My major annoyance with shopping is vanity sizing, I've tried jeans in anywhere from a 32-36 waist, so finding an accurately stated measurement is a godsend. I'm starting to notice it in shirts as well, I used to be between a L and an XL, and now I've more a L, with a hair towards M in some cuts. Part of that is wearing slimmer clothes, but I also think the L and XL sizes have gotten significantly bigger in the last 5 years.

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    Junior Member 90Shilling's Avatar
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    He wore a 42 jacket (broad shoulders) but 31 waist size for suit pants, trousers, jeans, etc... I thought for sure he would have to walk away from the purchase since suitsupply doesn't do mismatched jacket/pant sizes. However, he tried on the 36 pants and the waist was big, but not so much that it couldn't be fixed by tailoring. I interpreted this as suitsupply pants are much slimmer overall than your true waist size.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 90Shilling View Post
    he tried the same two sizes in the napoli, lazio, and washington fits, and there was differing degress of shoulder divots in each fit. Sizing up and down did not affect the divot presence, but going between the various fits did.
    Good to know. That supports my feeling that the cut of the model matters more than just the sizing (in terms of minimizing divots).

  5. #15
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    I am tailoring a suit currently and trying to eliminate the divot. YOU ARE SPOT ON :-) If there is extra fabric across the sleeve head (from too much height), it will form a ripple particularly if the sleeve armscye (sleeve hole) does not fit correctly. The hole it not a circle but more egg shaped - and it will be different from person to person depending on the size of the chest (if a guy is a weight lifter or has man boobs - conversely if he has a sway back or overly erect posture). The armscye gets fitted in the checked for fit in bespoke before the sleeve gets finalized - particularly for pattern matching in plaids). In ready-to-wear, the armscye is generally cut HUGE and deep to accomodate many guys but really fits no-one. Also, if the sleeve is cut too tight, it has a tendency to grab on the shirt. And while it accentuates the guns, it has a tendency to cause a divot particularly if the armscye is not fitting and cut too tight. I high armscye is great -- but a narrow one is divot forming.

    The chest fronts in Ready to wear are measured and made to accomodate a large enough size with the back taken in if it gets too sloppy. What I have also found is that where I get a suit or who the designer is makes a difference if I fit in their typical demographic. Men's wearhouse or Joseph Banks cater to an older audience - thus the suits are made to suit that typical client. The drop from chest to waist is less (thus the pants are huge and cut kinda sloppy). Zara and HnM are skewed to a younger/hipper client. They are cut lean and tight. And while they look great on a 20-something, and YES, I love their clothes, I am not built to that demographic. Also Italian designers usually design for a leaner silhouette as they themselves are leaner than the typical American. The sleeve (typically form Italians) will be cut tighter and the armhole will be cut higher unless they have a huge following in the US and manufacture specifically with that market in mind. Tommy Hilfiger has a European division and a US division and cuts specifically to each body type.
    This was a great topic and a super post. Good job!

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    @LCDR I found this incredibly helpful and could not agree more. I'm a 40R, but almost every suit jacket and dress shirt has armoholes that are too small for me. I can go up to a 42R, which is more comfortable, but then the jacket is too big and the shoulders are too wide. I've learned to accept that a suit jacket will never fit me comfortably and look good simultaneously unless it is bespoke, which I cannot currently afford. Unfortunate. At least I don't have to wear them too often.
    42" Chest 32" Waist 6' Tall 185 lbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duvel View Post
    Great post. Unless I'm spending significant cash, I overlook the shoulder divet problem if it's not too great. I get picky if it's an expensive suit, of course, but otherwise I just call it good.
    @Duvel This makes me feel worlds better. The shoulder divots were driving me crazy, but I too am just going to accept it.
    42" Chest 32" Waist 6' Tall 185 lbs.

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    Got a feeling you won't get a response...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LosRockets View Post
    Got a feeling you won't get a response...
    lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    As I mentioned in the other thread - almost no one else will ever notice it, especially if the rest fits well, and you are dressed well.
    So true. Until I knew what to look for, I never noticed divots, pulling of the fabric around the waist, too loose a fit in the pants etc. Ignorance is bliss!

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