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    Right on the main page under the "About the Suits" they have:
    "THE STORY BEHIND OUR BUTTONS
    Bullhorn buttons on non-functional buttonholes means you get to keep the bespoke look and feel while leaving alterations simple and staying affordable. And of course we took the time to set you up with an extra pair of buttons. Don’t thank us, it’s just what we do."

    I mean if youre going to make it a point to draw attention to the buttons by stating they are something they are not and then adding to that by patting yourself on the back for setting them up with an extra pair of something other than advertised, you really need to change that immediately.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Fred G. Unn View Post
      I've never seen an executive admit to an FTC violation with a smiley before I'm not sure where to begin with this. Vishaal is basically admitting to lying to the consumer about the "bullhorn buttons," buttons that used to contain some deer horn, but currently contain no horn whatsoever. The same buttons that are the focus of one of four main features of the suits as described on the CG site under "About the Suits." To quote the site:

      "We've taken the time to think about every last detail. Bullhorn buttons or bust."
      "Bullhorn buttons on non-functional buttonholes means you get to keep the bespoke look and feel while leaving alterations simple and staying affordable."

      Nowhere is this phrased as "faux bullhorn" or plastic or anything, just bullhorn which is a blatant falsehood. In my layman's reading of the law CG is not required to disclose the content of the buttons as they excluded under the Textile and Wool acts, but since they have this is a clear violation of FTC rules governing online advertising and marketing: http://www.business.ftc.gov/document...net-rules-road

      From that document:
      "In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to:
      - mislead consumers and
      - affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service."

      The Combatant Gentlemen site is clearly both trying to mislead consumers by implying the (plastic?) buttons are actually bull horn, and affect consumers' behavior by convincing them that these buttons are of much higher quality and price than they actually are. "Bullhorn buttons" seems to be completely made up by the marketing department and not grounded in reality at all. As this is one of the 4 main selling points I certainly would think the FTC would find it is relevant and quite likely an offense that could warrant a fine. If CG is going to continue selling in the US, they should get a US lawyer to review all advertising asap, since there are laws regulating deceptive advertising that they are either unaware of or worse, are aware of and are consciously flaunting.

      The non-disclosure of poly blend and the outright falsehood of the bullhorn buttons does not make CG a company I would want to do business with. I find this somewhat at odds with Vishaal's honest and open participation on this forum so maybe they'll get the marketing right.

      Fred,

      I'm sorry you feel that way. To clarify we have used all sorts of buttons in our sourcing methods. We've tried actual bull-horn buttons from India, we've tried deer antler buttons, which are also considered a a natural horn button, and we've tried faux buttons. We still have suits in stock of all three. Please keep in mind we have only had our suits for 6 mos. This is our way of learning from the market to get better and better. I hope you can understand.

      We are based in the US. I was born and raised here. We are iterating newer and newer versions of our suits all the time. The messaging has been noted and will be fixed at once.

      Once again - feel free to ping me directly or if you want to chat further I can give you my personal cell phone # over PM.

      Thanks for the help and notes!
      Last edited by vishaalmelwani; December 23, 2013, 08:11 PM. Reason: grammer

      Comment


        Originally posted by Shade View Post
        Right on the main page under the "About the Suits" they have:
        "THE STORY BEHIND OUR BUTTONS
        Bullhorn buttons on non-functional buttonholes means you get to keep the bespoke look and feel while leaving alterations simple and staying affordable. And of course we took the time to set you up with an extra pair of buttons. Don’t thank us, it’s just what we do."

        I mean if youre going to make it a point to draw attention to the buttons by stating they are something they are not and then adding to that by patting yourself on the back for setting them up with an extra pair of something other than advertised, you really need to change that immediately.
        Hey Shade,

        Understood. Working on it now. It will be changed shortly.

        The fact of the matter is that the copy was created when our first suits came out. We are updating now.

        Thanks,

        Comment


          Originally posted by vishaalmelwani View Post
          Hey Shade,

          Understood. Working on it now. It will be changed shortly.

          The fact of the matter is that the copy was created when our first suits came out. We are updating now.

          Thanks,
          Hi Vishaal,

          Thanks for the reply, and I understand you guys are new to the market, and are a work in progress, but when you selling a product, and using for instance, "bullhorn" as a specific sell point, to entice a buyer to purchase your product, you really need to be on point with updating the specs of each item, as they change, because people are going to get infuriated, and you are going to get labeled as a false advertiser. It is not just the buttons, but the wool, etc. It almost seems shady to be honest, nothing seems transparent at all, and I dont think, and am hoping you arent. I'm just giving you a candid response from someone interested in your suits. I mean this is stuff you guys should know, it's amateur level. If I was to purchase a leather jacket, and a faux leather jacket showed up, Id sure be ticked off, as I'm sure you would be as well.

          Comment


            Hey Shade,

            Completely understandable.

            We have noted the button situation and it is being fixed as we speak.

            As per the wool - also noted. I have mentioned on this forum a numerous amount of times that our Modern fit suit is a 60/40 blend. I've also mentioned that we are working as fast as possible to get a 100% good to go. In fact I have send the 100% wool samples to a few members on the forum already as a part of our think tank program.

            The whole reason I am on this board is to learn and iterate better. You guys are obviously really interested in Men's wear and that excites the shit out of me! I am here to answer questions etc...

            I have noted the issues with the site and am making a conscious effort to change the copy. Again, we will be releasing the 100% wool option on the modern fit as soon as possible. We are also trying to make the price affordable as well. After all this is the whole reason why we started this company.

            Thanks,

            Comment


              I would really like to applaud Vishaal's honest and open participation here though! I noticed they've already changed some things on the site. This is a forum of guys who are menswear enthusiasts who are looking for things affordably so this might not be indicative of the general population but here's what I'd suggest.

              1) Be completely honest. If you have a great product there's no need to be misleading.

              2) Give as many detailed measurements as reasonably possible. As Mikey pointed out, Mr Porter is the leader in this and as a result is one of my favorite online retailers. Detailed measurements about everything make me much more comfortable ordering from them since I know there's a really good chance it will fit well.

              3) Provide as much info about the suits as reasonably possible. The general population might not care about this stuff, but on this forum we'd like to know is it fused, half canvassed, fully canvassed, fabric composition, maybe even fabric mill, center vent, double vent, or ventless, working cuffs or not, or basted sleeves, etc. Real horn, plastic or corozo nut buttons? (Nut would probably be cool with the vegans.) 2 button, 3 or 2-roll-3, notched lapel, peak or shawl? We like all that stuff!

              I understand there's a cost component to all these features, but there shouldn't really be to the disclosure of all of them. SuitSupply does a pretty good job at disclosing pretty much everything I described above for their products. If CG could combine the measurements of Mr Porter with the details of SuitSupply that would make for a much more compelling site than the current one IMO.

              Comment


                BTW - I wanted to thank everyone for their notes. I really feel that if more brands took notes/criticisms like this we'd have a much better market place.

                Thanks again fellas,

                Comment


                  Hey Fred,

                  Dope!!

                  Thanks for these details.

                  I am taking all this down and going to share it with the team after everyone returns from the Holiday break. You can guarantee that we will come back with something spectacular. This post you wrote is exactly what I am talking about. I love getting this feedback because it only makes us better.

                  Thanks again Fred and I will let you know once we have worked out the above!

                  Thanks,

                  Comment


                    Sorry for being harsh before. I've gotta say it's good to see a company be so responsive, and if you can implement the changes Fred suggests you're going to make a lot of fans. Corozo might be a good mid-range alternative to horn for your more expensive suits. I know that Joe showed an older-style of your button but my personal suggestion is that if you can't source horn/corozo buttons at your price point, it's better to go with faux that has the horn style/detailing over a solid or matte appearance. That's just me though, I know many people may differ. Hope y'all do well, and enjoy the holidays. Good job including size 36 suits (I'm a 38R but I know a lot of people on Reddit/Dappered wear a 36 and find it hard to get suits that fit and look good in that size)!

                    Comment


                      Just as a model for CG, I'd also like to point out another of my current favorite sites, No Man Walks Alone, although much of it is out of my price range:
                      http://www.nomanwalksalone.com/index.php/
                      Obviously they carry multiple brands but they have great editorial info, detailed sizing for almost everything, detailed info about every item, general info about every designer, etc. This company just went online in October and is really doing a great job IMO. The more info the better, even if it's not in your face all the time. They do a great job of sort of combining the detailed measurements of Mr Porter with the detailed info of SuitSupply. Add in the great editorial content and they are one of the best menswear retail sites out there even though they are very new. Now if I could only afford more of it ...

                      In any case that's the sort of information I personally am looking for from an online retailer. Most of that info could easily be available on the CG site as well I would think. Combined with some smart editorial content that could be a winning combination for CG.

                      Comment


                        HI GUYZ!

                        I got my suit today!

                        Background:
                        5'11" 165 lbs 38R/38S 30x31.5(tailored)

                        Suit:

                        I think I received the 100% wool suit in both a 38R and 38S. I received the 38R Slim tonight.

                        Jacket: Button stance seems fine. Slightly higher than the Ludlow. Just about the same as a 38R at Banana Republic.

                        Chest piece feels relatively substantial. Fits very snug/tight around the chest and shoulders. Shoulders are a little more structured than I would have expected or liked. Armholes are high. Unlike my other OTR suits/jackets, the sleeves don't look like they will have to shortened nor will the sides need to be taken in. Buttons on the jacket are a slight disappointment. They feel plasticky and look relatively matte. Finally, the back of the jacket does not cover my entire seat.

                        Pants:
                        Pants look great. Picked up 30's (they come unhemmed). Like Joe mentioned before, no vanity sizing whatsoever. That 30 is a legit 30. Going to have them hemmed and taken out a bit before I post pics of fit. The lining around the waist and pockets of the pants feel like rough, poly lining. They do seem very slim through the leg. I might pick up a couple more pairs as work pants. I work in an environment that requires dress slacks and a button down shirt.

                        Joe was right. Higher step up from Macy's branded suits. I would regard these suits as an affordable replacement for a suit purchased at Banana Republic. A full step below the JCrew's Ludlow line in terms of quality and a full step below SuitSupply's basic suit. With affordable tailoring adjustments, this is a great starter suit that you will look great in. In my opinion, it's definitely a keeper. Just don't be expect it to replace suits 2x or 3x the price of what you're paying.


                        Pics: Incoming as soon as I get it to the tailor. Might be a little later considering what time of year it is.
                        Disclaimer: I paid for the suit. Waited 2.5 weeks for shipment.
                        Last edited by imliuwhoru; December 23, 2013, 10:54 PM. Reason: pics/disclaimer

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by LosRockets View Post
                          Sorry for being harsh before. I've gotta say it's good to see a company be so responsive, and if you can implement the changes Fred suggests you're going to make a lot of fans. Corozo might be a good mid-range alternative to horn for your more expensive suits. I know that Joe showed an older-style of your button but my personal suggestion is that if you can't source horn/corozo buttons at your price point, it's better to go with faux that has the horn style/detailing over a solid or matte appearance. That's just me though, I know many people may differ. Hope y'all do well, and enjoy the holidays. Good job including size 36 suits (I'm a 38R but I know a lot of people on Reddit/Dappered wear a 36 and find it hard to get suits that fit and look good in that size)!
                          Not to worry man, truly value the opinions.

                          Looking at corozo buttons as we speak. I'll take some pics from the samples I get to see what you guys think.

                          Thanks for the kind words and hope you have a great holiday as well!

                          Thanks again for the input!

                          Comment


                            Hey Fred,

                            Thanks for this - the site looks really great.

                            This is helping me a lot in terms of UI/UX. We are working on new copy through the Holidays to bring the collection more to life inside and out. I'll follow up with you all shortly to get some early thoughts. Again this feedback is amazing because although this is a small group, it's a group that values the key points that we are trying to showcase, so I am super appreciative of your time and helping me grow this brand.

                            Thanks!

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by imliuwhoru View Post
                              HI GUYZ!

                              I got my suit today!

                              Background:
                              5'11" 165 lbs 38R/38S 30x31.5(tailored)

                              Suit:

                              I think I received the 100% wool suit in both a 38R and 38S. I received the 38R Slim tonight.

                              Jacket: Button stance seems fine. Slightly higher than the Ludlow. Just about the same as a 38R at Banana Republic.

                              Chest piece feels relatively substantial. Fits very snug/tight around the chest and shoulders. Shoulders are a little more structured than I would have expected or liked. Armholes are high. Unlike my other OTR suits/jackets, the sleeves don't look like they will have to shortened nor will the sides need to be taken in. Buttons on the jacket are a slight disappointment. They feel plasticky and look relatively matte. Finally, the back of the jacket does not cover my entire seat.

                              Pants:
                              Pants look great. Picked up 30's (they come unhemmed). Like Joe mentioned before, no vanity sizing whatsoever. That 30 is a legit 30. Going to have them hemmed and taken out a bit before I post pics of fit. The lining around the waist and pockets of the pants feel like rough, poly lining. They do seem very slim through the leg. I might pick up a couple more pairs as work pants. I work in an environment that requires dress slacks and a button down shirt.

                              Joe was right. Higher step up from Macy's branded suits. I would regard these suits as an affordable replacement for a suit purchased at Banana Republic. A full step below the JCrew's Ludlow line in terms of quality and a full step below SuitSupply's basic suit. With affordable tailoring adjustments, this is a great starter suit that you will look great in. In my opinion, it's definitely a keeper. Just don't be expect it to replace suits 2x or 3x the price of what you're paying.


                              Pics: Incoming as soon as I get it to the tailor. Might be a little later considering what time of year it is.
                              Disclaimer: I paid for the suit. Waited 2.5 weeks for shipment.
                              Glad to hear you got the suit before xmas!

                              Thanks and please let me know if you have any notes!

                              Happy Holidays!!

                              Comment


                                someone just cut the suit open and show us the canvassing.

                                Comment

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