Some Rules I Break And Why

[Jackie Treehorn]

Hi,
I've been lurking for awhile and thought I would try and add to the great discussion on this forum.

I intentionally do a few things that most of us think of as sartorially incorrect. I'll throw them out there because I'm curious to see what others think. I have thick skin so feel free to say I look like a clown. Sometimes I probably do.

1. I wearing a matching tie and pocket square. Now before you get your hand rolled linen in a bunch, hear me out. I only do it in one particular way. Navy Suit-white shirt- solid color tie- black shoes. I'm a lawyer and that's a pretty standard look but it's unfortunately been co-opted by every politician in the country. So to avoid looking like I'm running for office, I sometimes will wear a matching silk pocket square, poof style, just barely poking out of the pocket. It tones down the uptightness.

2. I wear a suit jacket as an odd jacket. I think that's a little more accepted with the Dappered crowd but its still technically a no-no. And again, its one particular circumstance. I have a flannel glen plaid suit and the jacket looks great without the pants (with other pants though, with no pants it clashes with the pattern of my leg hair).

3. I wear a black leather jacket with brown belt/watch/shoes. I'm not sure if this actually breaks the rule but it probably does. The jacket is fairly simple, not an elaborate biker jacket or anything. And most of my black shoes and watch bands are formal work wear. So I go with brown. I will say that I generally avoid very dark brown shoes (specifically JCP "cutters" leather chukkas) because I don't want it to look like I thought they matched and was wrong.

So that's my list.
Thoughts?
Any rules you like to break?

[Fred G. Unn]

[bruschetta]

Welcome to the forums, Jackie. Apologies for the GIF, but your post reads like a celebrity tell-all feature.

[Duvel]

I like to leave my fly undone. It's fun to see who notices and who will say anything about it.
I like to button my button-up shirt all screwed up.
I like to wear my baggy jeans backwards!

[BB]

Jackie Treehorn: now that's an excellent handle.

I wear suit jackets as odd jackets all the time. If it's not in worsted wool, and especially if it's patterned, you're probably fine. I have a J Crew Chino suit, a seersucker suit (see today's WIWT), and a navy linen-cotton suit from Lands' End, and an off-white linen suit that I often wear as odd jackets. If you have a tweed suit, that would work, too. And all of the JCFactory jackets are designed to work like this. Contrasting buttons help with this transition. If it's worsted wool, though, it's probably going to look off.

Mixing black and brown is often fine, too. People get really worked up about this, but if the brown is a light shade it can look really good.

Duvel, I'm surprised your list is purely making fun -- since you like to wear white jeans in the middle of the winter. That's true, though, right?

I don't think I'd ever wear matching tie and pocket square, though. (I think that's why Fred's Louie keeps slapping his head).

[hornsup84]

1. I wearing a matching tie and pocket square. Now before you get your hand rolled linen in a bunch, hear me out. I only do it in one particular way. Navy Suit-white shirt- solid color tie- black shoes. I'm a lawyer and that's a pretty standard look but it's unfortunately been co-opted by every politician in the country. So to avoid looking like I'm running for office, I sometimes will wear a matching silk pocket square, poof style, just barely poking out of the pocket. It tones down the uptightness.

Where are you an attorney? I only ask because, while the legal profession is rather conservative in acceptable attire, I think one can usually branch out a bit and I work at a pretty old school conservative firm in NYC. This can be done with a non-matching PS, a striped shirt, a patterned suit, brown shoes (I almost never wear my black captoes), etc. I tend to show in my personal "irreverence" to the uniform with wearing colorful/patterned socks; sometimes get a comment or two poking fun, but never had someone actually react negatively and most of the time I get compliments. I won't be rocking a knit square-end tie anytime soon, but there are other ways you can throw in some creativity to the legal stormtrooper look. Obviously if going to court or an important board meeting, one usually tends back toward the stormtrooper uniform, etc.

[Fred G. Unn]

Duvel, with the post of the year!

1. Seriously, these should not even exist, much less be worn. Looks like high school prom. If you are an attorney I seriously hope you never wore this in court or in front of a client. These are really, really awful looking. I'm not sure I even made it past this before posting the C.K. facepalm it was so bad. Do not do this. Ever.

2. This should really be avoided but if the jacket has a strong pattern it could possibly pass. One likely problem could be the buttons though. Another reason not to do this is that the trousers and jacket will wear (or fade from sunlight) unevenly and you'll no longer be able to wear it as a suit. What color is your flannel suit? What trousers could you wear with the jacket that would be better than the flannel suit trousers?

3. Shoes and belt have to match or at least be close. Every adult really has to own a brown belt and a black belt. You cannot wear a brown belt with black shoes without it looking bad. Brown belt with walnut shoes is fine. Outerwear such as your leather jacket gets a pass IMO. Black shoes/belt will certainly look better though, but most of us will only own a couple of coats. As long as you remove your leather coat indoors (so it's not part of an "outfit") then whatever you look like in transit is ok. Watch bands are iffy. If I'm wearing a leather watch band, it matches my belt or shoes. Actually most of the time I wear a watch with a stainless band so I don't have to worry about it or bother switching out the bands.

[charliebrown2]

I honestly don't think the "rules" that OP is breaking are that bad.

Rock with confidence.

[Fred G. Unn]

Rock with confidence.

Do not rock with confidence. Especially #1 and especially if you are an attorney. You will be dealing with clients and other lawyers that will know this is terrible and will make negative assumptions about you. This is a set in stone rule that should not ever be broken. Matching tie and pocket square sets are much worse than just not wearing a pocket square.

[alan]

[hornsup84]

Do not rock with confidence. Especially #1 and especially if you are an attorney. You will be dealing with clients and other lawyers that will know this is terrible and will make negative assumptions about you. This is a set in stone rule that should not ever be broken. Matching tie and pocket square sets are much worse than just not wearing a pocket square.

A little harsh above, but I wanted to follow up with my post above with a clarification. I have never worn a pocket square to work; I generally find that it's more flair than should be worn in a professional setting, especially if you're on the younger side of the office age spectrum (I group them in with very strong patterned suits, really gaudy/large cufflinks and banker/contrasting collar/cuff shirts--better to avoid unless you're making it rain, and even then...). I occasionally throw in a tie bar if I have an unruly smaller end (doesn't reach or stay tucked in the loop, etc.--which happens when you're tall on occasion).

Generally, I base my attire on what I know of a client. If they're 'fancy' people, I feel perfectly fine wearing my Ratio twill shirts, a Ferra tie (over-generalizing, but I find Hermes too staunch/old for my tastes), etc. However, if it's a client that leans in the other direction, I still wear nice/presentable things, but may opt for a classic BB tie and pinpoint shirt. As attorneys, we are constantly walking a fine line between dressing the part / looking successful, but not looking too successful so that your clients think they must be paying us too much.

That all being said, while impressions of your attire can be important initially (whether this _should be_ the case, different story), if it's a long-term client, your work product will be more important than what you wear so long as you're presentable.

[bruschetta]

Guys, I think we've all made our point. Please remember that the Dappered Threads forums are meant to be a welcoming, friendly community. We don't want to devolve into a highly critical, pretentious community like Styleforum.

Jackie Treehorn, I apologize for all of the criticism that you've received as a response to your first thread. Your opening post was rather silly, but that doesn't give other members leave to jump down your throat. I'll keep an eye on this thread and close it if it becomes uncivil.

[washedout]

Fellow lawyer at large law firm checking in. Definitely understand and agree with OP's original post/perspective.

Corporate law is very conservative. Very. As a young lawyer, Walnut strands are borderline on the flashy scale.

[LesserBlackDog]

Walnut Strands are flashy shoes by any definition. I don't think corporate law is special in that regard. In fact, there are significantly more conservative standards out there, like London finance, where I know a guy who knows a guy who will forever be known as "Johnny Brown-Shoes" for making the grievous mistake of wearing brown oxfords on his first day to work.

As far as rule-breaking goes, I will need to give it some more thought. The only breach that immediately comes to mind, in light of the above, is my penchant for wearing brown shoes, rather than black, with business attire. If I were adhering more closely to convention, I would probably wear black shoes with suits more frequently, and brown shoes only sparingly.

I also have a habit of wearing cheap, crappy watches (like the $14 Casio in this photo) to court. I got tired of throwing my nice watches into the scanner bin while racing through security at 100mph. I'm sure that's a faux pas of some variety.

[Shomas]

I'm another NYC biglaw lawyer. I dress very conservatively for court and/or client meetings, but those don't happen that often. For the rest of the time, I wear patterned shirts, colorful socks, brown shoes (of various shades and configurations), pocket squares (not perfectly matching my ties), etc. in various configurations that amount to tasteful, yet hopefully somewhat interesting, business-casual looks. Any of you who've seen me on the WIWT thread can tell me if I'm coloring too far outside of the lines, but I don't think I am. I've never gotten any pushback, anyway. In fact, the only comments I've ever gotten were from a partner who commented with approval a couple of times on my shoes and my tie. And I am most definitely not making it rain. I suppose it could just be my firm, though - I don't have experience anywhere else.