Seiko skx007 or orient black ray?

[nftmlk]

Which do you guys prefer and why? I'm looking to get one of these two and am leaning towards the seiko because I like the look of the bezel more.

This would be my first automatic watch and from what I've read they are not as accurate as quartz. In addition to that, I've read they lose/gain a certain amount of time each day.

[LesserBlackDog]

I personally prefer the look of the Ray. To me, the 007 has always looked a bit dated.

Function-wise and spec-wise, they are virtually the same. 200m WR with screw-down crown. Neither hacks (stops the second hand when you are adjusting the time) or hand-winds (can be powered by winding the crown). Both are approximately the same size. Both have bracelets with hollow end-links, and use some variation of mineral crystal.

It really boils down to your aesthetic preference. Also, price. The Ray is quite a bit cheaper than the 007.

As far as automatic watches go - you're right that they are much less accurate than quartz. An automatic watch can gain or lose as many as 15 seconds a day and still be considered relatively accurate. A quartz watch is not supposed to gain or lose more than 15 seconds per month. The primary practical concern is that, if you are a stickler for accuracy and being on time, you will need to remember to reset the time on your watch every few days. Additionally, the automatic movement is powered by the movements of your wrist rather than by a battery. If you leave the watch sitting for more than a day or so, it will lose power and you'll have to "charge it up" again by shaking it gently for about a minute. If the watch had a hand-wind feature, you could just wind the crown several times rather than having to shake it.

[Margotron]

With autos, you also won't have to replace the battery in 2 or 3 years, which usually either costs 20-40 dollars + time or do it yourself and void the warranty. Probably my biggest quibble with quartz haha


Do share whatever you end up with. I love both immensely. My Invicta Quartz diver has...a dead battery, and I've been avoiding dealing with it :\

[LesserBlackDog]

With autos, you also won't have to replace the battery in 2 or 3 years, which usually either costs 20-40 dollars + time or do it yourself and void the warranty. Probably my biggest quibble with quartz haha


Do share whatever you end up with. I love both immensely. My Invicta Quartz diver has...a dead battery, and I've been avoiding dealing with it :\

Yeah, but autos have to be fully serviced every 5 years or so, which will ring you up >$100. Plus your watch will be gone for at least a week (with a local, independent watchmaker) and possibly many weeks if you send it away to a manufacturer service center.

Plus - Where have you been getting batteries changed for $20-40?! That's a serious rip-off. Most watchmakers charge $10, but more often I do it myself since it's so cheap and easy. A couple dollars for a battery and a minute or two to actually change it.

[Hypebeast]

The seiko is timeless and has a cult following. It also has a huge aftermarket for custom parts, so you could really personalize your watch.

[javadave]

I vote Seiko. it is really a great watch and worth every penny.

[LesserBlackDog]

With autos, you also won't have to replace the battery in 2 or 3 years, which usually either costs 20-40 dollars + time or do it yourself and void the warranty.

Another thought re: quartz battery changes. Not sure why warranties are a concern - most watches only include a 1-3 year manufacturer warranty to begin with, and that's assuming you buy it from an authorized dealer. Some grey market dealers will offer their own warranties, usually comparable in duration to the manufacturer's. That's true of both quartz and automatic watches. By the time you change the battery on your quartz watch or need a service on your auto, you will generally be well outside the warranty period. Most warranties only covers defects in the movement, anyway.

If you have the battery changed, new gaskets, and a pressure test from a local watchmaker, they will often warrant their own work (usually for 1 year).

[nftmlk]

I honestly think that changing the battery in a watch is not that big of a hassle.. On the other hand, having to send a watch to be serviced sounds like more of an inconvenience. I guess I'm trying to understand what is the benefit of an automatic watch over quartz?

Also, BenR can you recommend similar styled watches that can be handwound? I think that is a great selling point, as I'd be able to wind it and wear my other watches.

[LesserBlackDog]

The benefit of automatic is basically the romance of the thing. Wearing a tiny ticking mechanical heart on your wrist. Powering the watch with your own movements, rather than an electrical pulse. Wearing the same basic kind of watch that people have been using for hundreds of years. There is the aesthetic benefit of the sweeping hand (five beats per second for these watches, rather than one beat per second with standard quartz), plus the "prestige" factor. Almost all "luxury" watches are automatic, so there is a certain tendency for quartz watches to be viewed as cheap throwaways and automatics (regardless of their actual quality) to be viewed as "heirloom pieces."

Most of these supposed benefits are basically products of luxury watch marketing. But, it is what it is, and a lot of people still prefer automatic to quartz. *shrug*

As far as watches that hand-wind... Seiko is in the process of upgrading its lower-end offerings to use updated movements that hack and handwind. For example, the new Seiko Monster with the triangular teeth uses the 4R36 movement. Unfortunately, these watches are hard to come by in the US market and tend to be much more expensive than their predecessors (due mostly to scarcity at this point). Also, most of the new models offered with hacking and hand-winding movements are not, in my opinion, very attractive.

Entry-level Swiss automatics that use ETA or ETA-based movements (or similar) virtually all hack and hand-wind. Unfortunately, watches using these movements will be markedly more expensive than either the Mako or the 007. On the upside, they will also tend to include better overall features and specs, like sapphire crystals. You'll find these movements in watches from brands like Christopher Ward, Tissot, Hamilton. Probably the budget-friendliest watches with a hacking/hand-winding Swiss movement are from a German maker called Kadloo. Their watches can be had in the $2-300 range on Amazon, and I've heard lots of positive reviews on Watchuseek.

I suspect there are some Chinese movements, particularly from Sea-Gull, that also hack and hand-wind, as they are generally based off ETA equivalents. But I don't know much about Chinese watches, and the only diver-style Chinese watches I know of will tend to be at around the same starting price as the Kadloos (~$300 for the Sea-Gull Dragon King, for example).

[nftmlk]

Ben, do you know which one is thicker? I have a smaller wrist and wouldn't like the look of something really thick sticking out.

[LesserBlackDog]

Both watches are right around 13mm in thickness. The Mako/Ray is 41.5mm while the SKX007 is 42mm. My impression is that they will wear pretty much the same, with the Seiko wearing perhaps a little bit larger and "chunkier." The Seiko has a squared off bezel that is basically the same width as the rest of the case, while the Orient's bezel has some slope to it and doesn't quite extend to the full width of the case. So even though they are equally thick at their thickest points, the Seiko is more uniformly thick while the Orient has a domed shape.

[nftmlk]

Ended up going with the seiko. How tight do you guys recommend screwing the crown down? I'm a little afraid that the threads will strip