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Do you like button down dress shirts without button down collars?

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    Do you like button down dress shirts without button down collars?

    I have worn button down shirts most work days of my adult life and often at social occasions as well. Most of the time with a tie and most of the time NOT a button down collar.

    I'm not sure why, but the last year or two, I've grown to hate the look of a button down shirt with no tie unless it has a button down collar or unless I'm wearing a sweater over it. Yes, the magnetic collar stays that I sometimes use makes them look better. I rarely wear ties anymore. But I've got a least a dozen shirts I rarely wear as well.

    I've been watching the HBO show Succession and a couple of the men on that show are always wearing dress shirts with no ties--I think it's a terrible look.

    I guess it looks "unfinished" to me. I'm not sure.

    So, in summary:

    I like: 1) Button down shirts with a tie or sweater; 2) Button down shirts with button collars with no tie, with a tie, or with a sweater.

    I don't like: Button down shirts without button down collars with no tie and no sweater.

    Anyone else have a strong opinion on this?

    Why?


    WHY ARE THE GUYS IN SUITS HERE? HAS SOMETHING GONE WRONG?

    #2
    I have thoughts, but not so many strong opinions (hence no bold type for me :P )

    I also think that the charcoal and dark suits they wear in Succession with dress shirts (like actual white shirts) look unfinished. It's obviously missing the tie, and what it suggests to me is either "I just got done wearing a tie" (which I think, why not just continue wearing the tie?) or "I'm important enough that I don't have to wear a tie" which is mildly irksome to me. Both seem like affected behavior to me.

    I think Johnny Rose in "Schitt's Creek" always wears a suit with a shirt (not always white) and it looks a little more casual because it's often a lighter suit, lighter blues or greys, and light pink or blue shirts. He also has collar stays with some fortitude. I think that's a great look, but I don't know if it's a "business" look. To be fair, I don't work in a field that anyone would consider "business!" But I do prefer this to the Succession version of the shirt suit no tie.

    I'd like your and other opinions about an oxford shirt with a suit--I know you mean broadcloth shirts with collars that button. I don't own any of those type of shirts because I think they don't look good with my face and a tie. But, I've often heard people say that an oxford shirt is too casual for a suit. Do you think the same applies to other buttoned down collars?

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      #3
      When you say dress shirt with not tie are you referring specifically to when worn with a suit? Or always? I wear a button up dress shirt almost every day but never a suit. Always paired with 5-pocket pants. And I actually prefer to a collar without buttons but I'm also fine with the button-down collar and have a few. But I probably have half a dozen or more without to every one that I have with.

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        #4
        Originally posted by andrewrg View Post
        I have thoughts, but not so many strong opinions (hence no bold type for me :P )


        I'd like your and other opinions about an oxford shirt with a suit--I know you mean broadcloth shirts with collars that button. I don't own any of those type of shirts because I think they don't look good with my face and a tie. But, I've often heard people say that an oxford shirt is too casual for a suit. Do you think the same applies to other buttoned down collars?
        I think that fabric choice is important when choosing a shirt. I recently tried wearing a fine twill shirt with a cotton sport coat. The shirt was obviously too dressy for the sport coat so I switched to an Oxford. The formality of fabric was a definite mismatch. I could see the opposite being true for an OCBD with a worsted suit.

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          #5
          Originally posted by andrewrg View Post

          I'd like your and other opinions about an oxford shirt with a suit--I know you mean broadcloth shirts with collars that button. I don't own any of those type of shirts because I think they don't look good with my face and a tie. But, I've often heard people say that an oxford shirt is too casual for a suit. Do you think the same applies to other buttoned down collars?
          Yes, I was referring to oxford button down collar. I do wear them without a tie with a suit or sportscoat at times. With a suit AND tie, I prefer a non-button down collar.

          With hidden buttons, I guess I'm not nearly so fussy. What other types of button collars are there?
          WHY ARE THE GUYS IN SUITS HERE? HAS SOMETHING GONE WRONG?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by JohnR View Post
            When you say dress shirt with not tie are you referring specifically to when worn with a suit? Or always? I wear a button up dress shirt almost every day but never a suit. Always paired with 5-pocket pants. And I actually prefer to a collar without buttons but I'm also fine with the button-down collar and have a few. But I probably have half a dozen or more without to every one that I have with.
            This is just personal preference--but at some point in the last two years, they have started to look strange to me even when worn casually without a suit or a sportscoat. I can't explain why. My mind gets twisted sometimes.

            For years I wouldn't wear any shade of brown with blue or gray--not even a neutral tan. I don't know why--I just thought it looked strange. And then it went away . . .

            WHY ARE THE GUYS IN SUITS HERE? HAS SOMETHING GONE WRONG?

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              #7
              I share your disdain for dress shirts with a suit but no tie. I suspect that when most people do that look they’re better off, and probably intend to, go with a sports coat and trousers. If you’re dressed up enough to wear a suit then you need a tie. If you don’t need a tie then you don’t actually need a suit.

              I also share your preference for dress shirts with button down collars but I don’t feel as strongly about it, rather my preference is more a matter of practicality. I find picking a shirt where the collar point doesn’t curl or finding suitable collar stays are an additional hindrance that can be resolved with the buttons. The button down collar is considered more casual compared to a plain collar, but I think they still work well with suits.
              garryowen47
              Member
              Last edited by garryowen47; December 28, 2021, 12:45 PM.

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                #8
                Originally posted by mebejoseph View Post
                What other types of button collars are there?
                More like, buttoned down collar shirts with different types of cloth (I guess I always associated an oxford shirt with buttoned down collar). Like, a linen shirt with button down collar and a suit? Button down collar polo with a suit?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Button-down shirt to me means button-down collar, so I assume you mean dress shirt with a standard/regular/non-button-down collar.

                  I don't mind the tieless suit look if it is intentional and creative. A dark suit, no tie, black shoes, and white shirt with the collar buttoned all the way up except the top button is boring. If that outfit said anything, it would say I woke up late this morning and couldn't quite get it together.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by mebejoseph View Post
                    I'm not sure why, but the last year or two, I've grown to hate the look of a button down shirt with no tie unless it has a button down collar or unless I'm wearing a sweater over it.
                    I wonder if your growing disdain for the look has anything to do with the trend toward more and more casual and the cutting of corners since the pandemic. Personally, I have accumulated a lot of nice ties over the years, and it bothers the ever-loving heck out of me that I rarely get the opportunity to wear them anymore!

                    That being said, I actually don't have a problem with the dress shirt no tie look. It seems to me to be incredibly common for the business casual setting. So much so that if I hated it, I'd have to hate what approximately 75% of the office was wearing on a day to day basis.

                    I also think the suit with no tie look can be done well. George Clooney is the master, and I know...it's George Clooney, but I think it can be done well by normal humans as well. It can also be done really poorly.

                    I actually have a different, but perhaps similar pet peeve. I do not like the look of a dress shirt with tie but without a jacket or suit. And I'm not talking about a situation where you slip your jacket off for a bit, I am talking about when that is the whole look, tie flapping in the wind. Maybe it's just me, but to me it always looks like you borrowed your dad's tie for the homecoming dance kind of thing.


                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by CK83 View Post



                      I actually have a different, but perhaps similar pet peeve. I do not like the look of a dress shirt with tie but without a jacket or suit. And I'm not talking about a situation where you slip your jacket off for a bit, I am talking about when that is the whole look, tie flapping in the wind. Maybe it's just me, but to me it always looks like you borrowed your dad's tie for the homecoming dance kind of thing.

                      Agree!
                      WHY ARE THE GUYS IN SUITS HERE? HAS SOMETHING GONE WRONG?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by mebejoseph View Post
                        Do you like button down dress shirts without button down collars?
                        Just for the sake of clarity, I think in common usage a shirt that has buttons running all the way up the front is called a "button-up" shirt, to distinguish it from a T-shirt, a polo shirt, a quarter-zip shirt, or whatever. "Button-down" describes the collar alone, though it's sometimes taken to mean a "button-up shirt with a button-down collar," as in "OCBD" (Oxford Cloth Button-Down). Confusingly, there are also polo shirts with button-down collars, probably even made of Oxford cloth, but oh well.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by mebejoseph View Post

                          Yes, I was referring to oxford button down collar. I do wear them without a tie with a suit or sportscoat at times. With a suit AND tie, I prefer a non-button down collar.

                          With hidden buttons, I guess I'm not nearly so fussy. What other types of button collars are there?
                          The button down collar was, I think, meant to tame the collar points in instances when the shirt would be worn more casually without a tie with the top button unbuttoned. Usually a button up shirt with a collar that does not button down will behave if worn with the top button buttoned and a tie under the collar - the collar points will lie flat against the shirt placket when worn like that and look polished with a suit or sweater over the shirt. But, without the tie and especially without a tie and with the top button unfastened, the collar points will often migrate outside the suit's lapel or the neck hole of a sweater. Depending on the era this can look on trend (e.g. the 1970s it was popular to wear spread collar shirts with the collar of the shirt layered over jacket lapels) or kind of sloppy.

                          Most button down collar shirts are made of more casual fabric - thicker twills and oxford cloth - and hence look better worn casually without a tie. They can look fine with a tie as well but are much better worn without one than a dress shirt without a button down collar as a general rule. Collar stays, especially metal bendable ones can fix the issue of runaway collar points but a fine, polished dress shirt is not going to look right worn too casually.
                          “Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.” – Mark Twain

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                            #14
                            I was all about spread and cutaway collars when I first started working in the 2010s and wanted to "dress for the job I wanted."

                            Yet, without a tie, I found that those type of collars, especially if they're larger can flap.

                            Nearly a decade later, I'm all about the button downs - particularly Kamakura sport ivys that look good with or without a tie.
                            Best,
                            Paul

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