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What clothes are dead? (wellness check for your "dappered" clothes)

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    What clothes are dead? (wellness check for your "dappered" clothes)

    There was already a thread for "Is the suit dead?" but:

    1. Has the de-facto dress code changed at your workplace since the pandemic?

    2. If you work from home now, do you anticipate the de-facto dress code changing if/when you no longer work from home?


    My context: I'm a high school teacher, and I used to often wear a tie (which was always a little bit of a stretch), but since our school reopened, I've been scanning the landscape and a tie looks even more out of place. We're operating a skeleton crew of staff and students right now, but when the school fully reopens in the fall, I don't know if I would be further out of place wearing a tie. Right now I'm wearing pants and a jacket or a suit without a tie, or on really hot days no jacket.

    #2
    You seem to enjoy dressing well, so you ought to keep wearing your ties.

    Comment


      #3
      Here we go.

      1. Yes, I think the defacto dress code has changed. Before the pandemic suits and ties were the norm in my shop. When we eventually go back to the office, I think we're going to be office casual. If we're meeting with clients then suits will be required, but no tie. The tie, in our shop, is dead. You can of course wear one if you want, but it is not mandated.

      2. Yes. Definitely changed. Over the winter I was in comfy pants and a hoody 100% of the time. If I had an important meeting I ditch the hoody for a collared shirt. Now that summer is here I am writing you in short and a T. Definitely more relaxed.

      Comment


        #4
        My office is definitely more relaxed. I see some suits, but not as many as the Before Times. Also, though, in person meetings just started back up and even then, most meetings are still virtual. To the extent that people feel they need to dress up for their "opportunities to excel" in front their bosses, than I think dressing up will start to come back. But if the culture is now mostly virtual, even though people are back in the office, than it could stay more casual. Too early to tell.

        Comment


          #5
          As to what else besides suits are "dead"? I don't know. I still see plenty of sport coats, maybe because sport coats are fairly practical in an office environment. Pants are largely of the chino variety. Lots of jeans. Wool, not so much. Nothing textured like tweed except the occasional cords. Vests are mostly dead, although I think every office/cubicle "neighborhood" has a Vest Guy who makes it part of his personal brand. Same with bow ties - there's always that one guy. Heck, Vest Guy and Bowtie Guy are not infrequently the same guy. I think neckties are waning, but not dead yet. You know, it feels like overall tie quality has actually improved. The guys who like ties and still wear ties, wear good ties. But bad ties are dying off because guys who don't want to wear ties don't feel obliged to anymore. Its sort of an addition by subtraction, so to speak. Pocket squares seem to be on the decline again too. They were really popular for a while there, but maybe people just don't care anymore. The Mad Men effect is petering out.

          Comment


            #6
            There's definitely a trend toward a more casual office environment that began before, and was accelerated by the pandemic. For us (accounting firm), ties were a rarity even before the pandemic. Dress codes are easing, and with office clothes, it's really all about fitting in. Or at least standing out while fitting in. If your boss is wearing jeans and a polo shirt, you don't want to be in a suit and tie. It just raises more questions than it's worth.

            Having said that, I am sure I'll find myself wearing a suit, and maybe even a tie, on occasion. It just won't be an every day uniform. Also, everything is cyclical, so don't go tossing your wool trousers out! The next Mad Men could be just around the corner. I never bought into the cyclical thing, but now I'm now old enough that my baggy pleated pants are coming back into style (sigh).

            Comment


              #7
              I think ties have one foot in the grave. Lawyers will still wear them to court (for now). Politicians will still wear them. CEOs testifying to congress probably will. And we will probably still wear them to "black tie" events. Oh--some private clubs still require them, I believe.

              I will continue to wear my suits for fine dining type events, but without a tie. Of course, I will still continue to wear ties to court. At least until I see the vast majority of male lawyers not wearing them.

              BTW, my wife seems to really dislike me wearing a tie most of the time. As do most of my clients. I like them. But feel out of place when I wear them most occasions.

              And as much as I love them, I think true dress shoes are on the decline. They will never go away, of course, but my observation is that 90% of men wear them only on the most formal occasions. "Dress sneakers" are becoming common place with suits in my area. I wear dress shoes as much as I can, on the other hand. I even wore some AE spectators to get my hairs cut and to pick up a few things at Home Depot today. Cashier complimented me on them.
              WHY ARE THE GUYS IN SUITS HERE? HAS SOMETHING GONE WRONG?

              Comment


                #8
                Not back in person yet, but it was dockers and a sport shirt before the pandemic, I’m guessing it will be dockers and a polo or sport shirt after we all get back. Will still wear khakis or wool pants or cords, a button up and a sportcoat regardless.

                -Agreeing that ties are on the way out.
                -Pocket squares were never really that popular from what I saw.
                -Suits are gone except for court or formal occasions (and even then I see plenty of transgressors)
                -White bucks are dead here (but I love mine)
                -I think formal hats are dead as well (I see one every now and then but it’s truly rare)

                Comment


                  #9
                  We no longer wear wigs, knee-length breeches, stockings, tail coats and ruffled cravats. It's no secret that mid-late 20th century menswear is dead or at least on life support. I hate to see it, but I get it to a certain extent.

                  Hats - dead
                  Suit/Sport Coat - life support
                  Tie - life support
                  Suspenders/braces - dead
                  facial hair - ALIVE - but for how long?

                  Pre-pandemic my office was extremely casual. Lots of ripped jeans, leggings, t-shirts, and untucked button downs. I would be very out of place when wearing a dress shirt, tie & sport coat (once a week or so). Our head honcho's go to outfit was a henley w/ jeans and sneakers. Sure, that is easier and more efficient when commuting & hitting the gym in the morning, but does it look age appropriate? For reference, he is late 50s - I thought it made him look obsessed with youth in a sad way.

                  To me, modern dress codes are misleading - not serious in any sense. The official policy at my office was "business casual" but the office culture dictated "dress as you please". It irked me, but I have no interest in being an office curmudgeon. When working remotely, I completely understand and agree with a much more casual approach.

                  I've thought a lot about why this is now the norm rather than the exception. Not all of the reasons below are a bad thing - such as clothes being less expensive.

                  1. We are social beings and have been conditioned to conform. This was true when the norm was suit/tie and is certainly true when things have evolved to t-shirt & jeans.

                  2. We are so far removed from suit & tie being the standard - most have never lived it (too young) and others have completely forgotten the process. Material, colors, pattern mixing - don't know and don't want to know.

                  3. Tailoring - the craft is dying. At least in America (how many American tailors do you know?). There are a finite amount of places for anyone to be educated in the trade. Even then, is there much financial incentive?

                  4. Fast fashion - clothes are more abundant and less expensive than ever.

                  5. Obsession with youth and nostalgia. There's a reason super hero movies generate billions and billions of dollars. Does that really mean I should wear an Iron Man T-shirt to work?

                  6. Comfort is king

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by BScoles View Post
                    We no longer wear wigs, knee-length breeches, stockings, tail coats and ruffled cravats. It's no secret that mid-late 20th century menswear is dead or at least on life support. I hate to see it, but I get it to a certain extent.

                    Hats - dead
                    Suit/Sport Coat - life support
                    Tie - life support
                    Suspenders/braces - dead
                    facial hair - ALIVE - but for how long?

                    Pre-pandemic my office was extremely casual. Lots of ripped jeans, leggings, t-shirts, and untucked button downs. I would be very out of place when wearing a dress shirt, tie & sport coat (once a week or so). Our head honcho's go to outfit was a henley w/ jeans and sneakers. Sure, that is easier and more efficient when commuting & hitting the gym in the morning, but does it look age appropriate? For reference, he is late 50s - I thought it made him look obsessed with youth in a sad way.

                    To me, modern dress codes are misleading - not serious in any sense. The official policy at my office was "business casual" but the office culture dictated "dress as you please". It irked me, but I have no interest in being an office curmudgeon. When working remotely, I completely understand and agree with a much more casual approach.

                    I've thought a lot about why this is now the norm rather than the exception. Not all of the reasons below are a bad thing - such as clothes being less expensive.

                    1. We are social beings and have been conditioned to conform. This was true when the norm was suit/tie and is certainly true when things have evolved to t-shirt & jeans.

                    2. We are so far removed from suit & tie being the standard - most have never lived it (too young) and others have completely forgotten the process. Material, colors, pattern mixing - don't know and don't want to know.

                    3. Tailoring - the craft is dying. At least in America (how many American tailors do you know?). There are a finite amount of places for anyone to be educated in the trade. Even then, is there much financial incentive?

                    4. Fast fashion - clothes are more abundant and less expensive than ever.

                    5. Obsession with youth and nostalgia. There's a reason super hero movies generate billions and billions of dollars. Does that really mean I should wear an Iron Man T-shirt to work?

                    6. Comfort is king
                    Suspenders are on life support? Oh darn! I really like mine, especially as I get older. Actually, I think their fate is tied pretty closely to tailored jackets, since that's the best way to wear them discretely. You can cover suspenders with a sweater or vest (or a sweater vest!) too, but those have their drawbacks. Sweaters are highly seasonal and vests, well, I already talked about vests. Since baggy pants are apparently coming back, maybe the 90's suspender fad will make a brief return as well. Suspenders also had a moment in the aughts with the "urban lumberjack" wing of hipsterdom.

                    Interesting that you bring up wigs, tailcoats, and other antiquated garments. In truth, those things are still with us in certain vestigial forms. In the UK and parts of the Commonwealth and Europe, I believe, lawyers and judges still wear wigs in court. Judges in the US wear robes. Teachers and students wear academic robes for notable occasions like commencements and degree conference. Religious leaders wear distinctive traditional costume of ages past. Military uniforms have an element of that too. I kind of see suits and ties carrying on in this capacity. Maybe with lawyers. Maybe politicians. Maybe government bureaucrats. But it will become more like the signifier of a person's station, like a priest's Roman collar, than the daily wear of the masses. And I guess that's okay. Its like the evolution of language or anything else that shifts with human needs and wants.

                    I will make a special lament for the tie, though. I love my ties. They add a splash of color that you wouldn't want to cover yourself in. Think bright red tie or even bright red stripes on a tie vs. bright red shirt. They help visually highlight your face, which is the best esthetic purpose for any outfit. They even visually smooth a less-than-flat stomach. Very helpful for those of us who misplaced the Ab Roller, so to speak. I might end up the last guy in my office still wearing a tie. I'll be Tie Guy. Me and Vest Guy will be the weirdos together. Its all good.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by tankerjohn View Post
                      I will make a special lament for the tie, though. I love my ties. They add a splash of color that you wouldn't want to cover yourself in. Think bright red tie or even bright red stripes on a tie vs. bright red shirt.
                      It also ties (literally) together your collar, and the lapels of a jacket leave space for a tie as it is.

                      Originally posted by tankerjohn View Post
                      They even visually smooth a less-than-flat stomach. Very helpful for those of us who misplaced the Ab Roller, so to speak. I might end up the last guy in my office still wearing a tie. I'll be Tie Guy. Me and Vest Guy will be the weirdos together. Its all good.
                      Agreed. I like jackets for that reason, as well. Same with cardigans, but less effective at that.

                      Originally posted by BScoles View Post
                      facial hair - ALIVE - but for how long?
                      I read somewhere "We've reached peak manbun. We're almost at peak beard."
                      If we're not there already

                      Comment


                        #12
                        BScoles Wait--I need to fix something you wrote:

                        Originally posted by BScoles View Post

                        1. We are social beings and have been conditioned to conform. This was true when the norm was suit/tie and is certainly true when things have devolved to t-shirt & jeans.
                        There, that's more like it.
                        WHY ARE THE GUYS IN SUITS HERE? HAS SOMETHING GONE WRONG?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Still wearing the same ol' pockets galore.

                          https://dappered.com/2019/06/what-i-...force-reserve/

                          Though the COVID WFH beard was glorious. Best facial hair of my life.
                          https://www.professorhorseyhead.com

                          Comment


                            #14
                            We haven't been called back into the office yet. It'll be interesting so see what folks do. My plan is to dress how I did in the "before times" and see what everyone else does. If I look overdressed I'll probably tone it down.
                            “Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.” – Mark Twain

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