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    #16
    The suit was dying long before the Pandemic. Agreed that the necktie croaked over a decade ago, even in the most old school and starchiest industries.

    Sad to eulogize these changes. Clothing is getting more technical and comfort-based it seems. Working from home will definitely drive the trend.

    Would be interested to know how retailers dealing in men's formalwear are trending during the pandemic.








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      #17
      Ties are definitely dead I’m afraid. I still like them but I am in a definite minority. I feel suit and tie combinations will one day occupy the same niche as British powdered wigs, ie something only worn by government types. And I say this as a fan of suits and ties. I’ll be the Obsolete Man, wearing leather shoes, suits and ties long after everyone else has stopped.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Silverstreak View Post
        I’ll be the Obsolete Man, wearing leather shoes, suits and ties long after everyone else has stopped.
        I'll be with you--going back to work in person in Feb, and I've got a suit and tie ready.

        Do you or anyone else here think that if the suit is going to permanently lose a lot of wearership (word?), that it's going to fall into dandy territory? As in, right now, wearing a suit and tie and shoes is considered being dressed up, but wearing a green suit with contrasting vest and a red felt hat (seen hear in someone's Pitti Uomo picture) is considered dandy in the same place where others wear a suit? Like if everyone at an office wears a shirt and chinos, will people look at the guy in the suit the same way many guys in suits look at these guys here?



        BTW NOT a dig at anyone who dresses like this! It's a great picture, but I don't have any of this in my closet.

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          #19
          It the people in an office are wearing chinos and shirts and walk in with blazers, then a suit is not that big a deal. If they never wear blazers, then it's probably too much. Not dandy, but too much. Even now.

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            #20
            I don't even have a white collar job, so a date night is the only opportunity for me to wear a suit or even a blazer. I take the opportunities I can get.

            I am not saying that anyone needs to wear a suit, but for anyone who complains about not being able to wear a suit, there are options to make occasions. That is a little hard during the pandemic. However, if you are the only one home, then really YOU are the only person who is keeping you from suiting up.

            I know that the guy from SuitSupply describes one of his suits as "perfect for a weekend at home" sure, that is a bit eccentric, but we live in crazy times.

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              #21
              Originally posted by andrewrg View Post
              Do you or anyone else here think that if the suit is going to permanently lose a lot of wearership (word?), that it's going to fall into dandy territory? As in, right now, wearing a suit and tie and shoes is considered being dressed up, but wearing a green suit with contrasting vest and a red felt hat (seen hear in someone's Pitti Uomo picture) is considered dandy in the same place where others wear a suit? Like if everyone at an office wears a shirt and chinos, will people look at the guy in the suit the same way many guys in suits look at these guys here?
              Being a dandy is about flamboyance, which stands in stark contrast to anything which can be described as sober.

              Society has long been able to recognize a difference between formality and (over-the-top) fashion. Consider the tuxedo, and then consider the ruffled, pastel and neon versions which existed in the 1970s and 80s. Even at the height of their fashionability, you'd never see those versions at a truly formal event. That was true when dandies would wear their corsets too tight (men wore corsets to get a clean waistline, dandies gave themselves an hourglass shape), because the point of being a dandy was and still is to reject formality by going to extremes. A garment which can be described as plain, conservative, sober, etc. doesn't send that message.

              We may well reach a point where the suit is considered too formal for daily wear, much as we did for tailcoats, but I wouldn't expect it to fall into dandy territory. At least not for many decades, given we're no longer seeing the kind of rapid social changes that led to the rise of the leisure suit in the 1800s.

              That said, I do wonder a bit if we're neglecting an element of the discussion: the range of relative formality. While much of the decrease in formality has come from people switching to less formal clothes, we as a society have added new, even more casual categories of clothing. As such the range of formal to casual accepted for public wear hasn't gotten any narrower, just shifted downwards. Even with our growing love of athleisure we still recognize a need for garb appropriate to formal, solemn events that is distinct from an outfit for trips to the grocery store. I don't see how we can get more casual at the bottom end, which suggests that the top end can't really move down any further either.
              Last edited by Galcobar; January 16, 2021, 09:43 AM.

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                #22
                Originally posted by Galcobar View Post

                Being a dandy is about flamboyance, which stands in stark contrast to anything which can be described as sober.

                Society has long been able to recognize a difference between formality and (over-the-top) fashion. Consider the tuxedo, and then consider the ruffled, pastel and neon versions which existed in the 1970s and 80s. Even at the height of their fashionability, you'd never see those versions at a truly formal event. That was true when dandies would wear their corsets too tight (men wore corsets to get a clean waistline, dandies gave themselves an hourglass shape), because the point of being a dandy was and still is to reject formality by going to extremes. A garment which can be described as plain, conservative, sober, etc. doesn't send that message.

                We may well reach a point where the suit is considered too formal for daily wear, much as we did for tailcoats, but I wouldn't expect it to fall into dandy territory. At least not for many decades, given we're no longer seeing the kind of rapid social changes that led to the rise of the leisure suit in the 1800s.

                That said, I do wonder a bit if we're neglecting an element of the discussion: the range of relative formality. While much of the decrease in formality has come from people switching to less formal clothes, we as a society have added new, even more casual categories of clothing. As such the range of formal to casual accepted for public wear hasn't gotten any narrower, just shifted downwards. Even with our growing love of athleisure we still recognize a need for garb appropriate to formal, solemn events that is distinct from an outfit for trips to the grocery store. I don't see how we can get more casual at the bottom end, which suggests that the top end can't really move down any further either.
                One must keep in mind that the definition of dandy varies from the original fops that were certainly flamboyant. I am thinking of Manton's book the Suit, which he wanted to name the Dandy, but I digress.


                A suit today is largely reserved for work. In this sense the leisure suit is dead, or at least moribund, but the business suit lives on. The business suit is of course in decline, but still is strong in certain spots, for example congress, but also on tv. Not only the news, but suits are worn by characters on tv, far more than real life. At least in my experience, then again, I don't live in a major city.

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