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Beach "black tie optional"

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  • LesserBlackDog
    replied
    Tux on the beach is just blowing my tiny mind.

    Like all I can imagine people wearing at beach destination weddings is flowy off-white linen. Probably barefoot. With bad sunglasses. At the ceremony.

    IDK.

    Leave a comment:


  • hornsup84
    replied
    Had my SO ask, and the ceremony is indeed on the beach, not just beachfront property. Bride somewhat acknowledged that it doesn't make sense, but didn't otherwise get too much guidance.

    I do think the "what is the issue?!" crowd is seeing this a bit more simple than most. There is an inherent disconnect between normal beach wedding attire and a stated "black tie optional" dress code. If you do not wear a tux for BTO, the appropriate alternative is a dark suit and tie. Heck, but for a tropical locale, technically BTO should mean black bow tie / black tux (or midnight navy), not a white or other dinner jacket. That being said, some disregard dress code norms, which is fine--just not my SOP.

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  • wsupjs
    replied
    What an interesting contradiction!

    First, I'd confirm the wedding is actually on the beach versus a beachfront property. For a beachfront property, your recommended combo sounds spot on.

    If you're actually on the beach in Mexico, having anything more than a linen shirt and some lightweight, rolled up dress pants seems like overkill.

    Leave a comment:


  • whereismurder
    replied
    Originally posted by aps2012 View Post
    I'm going to take a contrary position: anything that requires being anything other than barefoot, or *maybe* flip flops on an actual sand beach is "too formal." So once you're requiring shoes of any sort, the top, why not have it be formal? And I don't see how sand is going to be any more a problem for a tux than for any other clothes.

    I get the heat issue, but this applies to summer weddings just about anywhere in the US.

    And I get wanting to be married right by the ocean. Sounds amazing.
    Seconded, not sure what is confusing. Wear a tux if you want, if not wear a suit.

    Let this be your guide:https://www.thevintagenews.com/wp-co...7/9evkapda.jpg

    Leave a comment:


  • hornsup84
    replied
    Thanks for all the good responses! This is continuing to be very helpful. I know the best answer is to ask, which I'll likely wind up doing, but wanted to wrap my head around ideas before. Currently I'm batting around the idea of my white dinner jacket, black tux pants, but doing a blue bow tie of some sort along with my blue suede loafers. Likely ditching cummerbund as well. It'd be a fairly creative black tie, with a beach/tropical twist, and straying far from traditional, but could be nice if I find the right bowtie.

    Originally posted by LesserBlackDog View Post
    Unfriend these plebes, go to Mexico anyway, profit.
    LOL - I like this option, but the wife may not be a fan (it's her friend's wedding).

    Originally posted by Galcobar View Post
    I know it's a rather extreme option in current society, but perhaps try contacting the happy couple? As others have said they may not realize how contradictory the message is, and would appreciate the suggestion to clarify the matter, for all their invitees. If sartorially well-educated people such as we are confused, imagine how the average person is feeling.

    As for black-tie traditions in hot weather, consider the Red Sea Rig. It comes from the Royal Navy, which in turn had taken a cue from India. Ditch the jacket for a red or maroon cummerbund over a pleated/Marcella shirt with a matching bow tie, and black or midnight blue tuxedo trousers. The Red Sea Rig spread from the military to be current appropriate formalwear for British and American diplomats in hot regions, primarily for locations which lack air conditioning. Navy and commercial cruise line officers usually wear a short-sleeve version.
    Well I learned something new today -- not sure I can pull that off, but cool history.

    Originally posted by JT10000 View Post
    Yes, but tuxedos are almost exclusively made in all-season material, etc, with a jacket lining, whereas summer suits can be much cooler.

    And with a summer suit you don't have the addition of an extra layer (cummerbund) around the waist. And sometimes a summer suit can look very good without a tie.
    All of this is why I'm confused/frustrated at not knowing how to approach. My dinner jacket is a cotton/linen blend (and even my traditional black tux is a summer/cool weight), which is helpful, but both still lined for obvious reasons.

    Originally posted by Galcobar View Post
    Funny thing is that the cummerbund was introduced as a warm-weather alternative to the waistcoat, derived from the sashes worn in India. Though nowadays the backless vest introduced by the Duke of Windsor in the 1920s would probably be cooler to wear.
    I'm a never vest type. Normally I'm always cummerbund, but depending on what I do here I may skip it for this one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Galcobar
    replied
    Originally posted by JT10000 View Post
    Yes, but tuxedos are almost exclusively made in all-season material, etc, with a jacket lining, whereas summer suits can be much cooler.

    And with a summer suit you don't have the addition of an extra layer (cummerbund) around the waist. And sometimes a summer suit can look very good without a tie.
    Funny thing is that the cummerbund was introduced as a warm-weather alternative to the waistcoat, derived from the sashes worn in India. Though nowadays the backless vest introduced by the Duke of Windsor in the 1920s would probably be cooler to wear.

    Leave a comment:


  • JT10000
    replied
    Originally posted by aps2012 View Post
    I get the heat issue, but this applies to summer weddings just about anywhere in the US.
    Yes, but tuxedos are almost exclusively made in all-season material, etc, with a jacket lining, whereas summer suits can be much cooler.

    And with a summer suit you don't have the addition of an extra layer (cummerbund) around the waist. And sometimes a summer suit can look very good without a tie.

    Leave a comment:


  • Domino
    replied
    Yeah, I'd suggest talking to the couple, and also possibly some mutual friends who will be going to see what their attire will be.

    I mean, a tux on the beach seems like the sort of thing I'd imagine in a Bond film for the morning after, with bow tie undone, rather than done full up.

    Also, confirming that the wedding is actually ON the beach and not simply AT the beach?

    Leave a comment:


  • aps2012
    replied
    I'm going to take a contrary position: anything that requires being anything other than barefoot, or *maybe* flip flops on an actual sand beach is "too formal." So once you're requiring shoes of any sort, the top, why not have it be formal? And I don't see how sand is going to be any more a problem for a tux than for any other clothes.

    I get the heat issue, but this applies to summer weddings just about anywhere in the US.

    And I get wanting to be married right by the ocean. Sounds amazing.

    Leave a comment:


  • mebejoseph
    replied
    Originally posted by Galcobar View Post
    I know it's a rather extreme option in current society, but perhaps try contacting the happy couple? As others have said they may not realize how contradictory the message is, and would appreciate the suggestion to clarify the matter, for all their invitees. If sartorially well-educated people such as we are confused, imagine how the average person is feeling.

    As for black-tie traditions in hot weather, consider the Red Sea Rig. It comes from Royal Navy, which in turn had taken a cue from India. Ditch the jacket for a red or maroon cummerbund over a pleated/Marcella shirt with a matching bow tie, and black or midnight blue tuxedo trousers. The Red Sea Rig spread from the military to be current appropriate formalwear for British and American diplomats in hot regions, primarily for locations which lack air conditioning. Navy and commercial cruise line officers usually wear a short-sleeve version.
    Interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Sea_rig

    Leave a comment:


  • Galcobar
    replied
    I know it's a rather extreme option in current society, but perhaps try contacting the happy couple? As others have said they may not realize how contradictory the message is, and would appreciate the suggestion to clarify the matter, for all their invitees. If sartorially well-educated people such as we are confused, imagine how the average person is feeling.

    As for black-tie traditions in hot weather, consider the Red Sea Rig. It comes from the Royal Navy, which in turn had taken a cue from India. Ditch the jacket for a red or maroon cummerbund over a pleated/Marcella shirt with a matching bow tie, and black or midnight blue tuxedo trousers. The Red Sea Rig spread from the military to be current appropriate formalwear for British and American diplomats in hot regions, primarily for locations which lack air conditioning. Navy and commercial cruise line officers usually wear a short-sleeve version.
    Last edited by Galcobar; April 29, 2019, 10:38 PM. Reason: typo

    Leave a comment:


  • hockeysc23
    replied
    I think the alternative for that situation is to not wear black tie or the substitutes. But that’s just me you know them better than I do. I’d probably ask them what the wedding party is wearing if you know them well enough.

    Leave a comment:


  • LesserBlackDog
    replied
    Unfriend these plebes, go to Mexico anyway, profit.

    Leave a comment:


  • mebejoseph
    replied
    I wouldn't be surprised if the bride and groom think of the emphasis being on "optional," but of course people like us think of the emphasis being on "black tie."

    I'd probably just send a gift and stay home.

    Leave a comment:


  • hornsup84
    replied
    Originally posted by hockeysc23 View Post
    I was going to say this. I think they don’t know what it means when they suggested what they did. But speaking of norms I also wouldn’t wear any version of white to a wedding.
    I agree on that for a female attendee that white is faux pas, but for men a beach wedding that is BTO--what's the appropriate alternative? Full black tux done up the same as you'd wear in winter NYC? I can think of better ways to die. I'm sure some will do that, but I run hot and would prefer not to doom myself to a perma-sweat before the ceremony even begins. I also won't be surprised if others wear lighter colored (white, tans, etc.) linen suits as well. And everything in between.

    Originally posted by neminat View Post
    I have noticed that now that I am into dressing more intentionally, people's lack of understanding causes issues. They will claim dress codes that are more casual or more formal than they intend.
    Agreed, I think this is a case of someone having 2 distinct ideas (both of which I like) and merging them in a non-normal course way. You don't want to be out of bounds, but it's hard to know what those are.

    Leave a comment:

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