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Half canvassed...a gimmick?

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    #31
    Originally posted by srlclark View Post
    The price is probably not similar. Most department store suits are going to go for $200 or less, and often much less. SuitSupply is very expensive, and Spier and Mackay is expensive. Those of us on this thread are used to higher prices, sure, but let's at least be honest with ourselves that we're paying high prices.

    (Even at Macy's, many suits will go for less than $200, and most for $250 or less. But Macy's is not a cheap department store. In the JC Penney's, Kohl's, and Bon Ton's of this world, I think most suits will go for in the range of $100-$150, on sale).
    I wish we had that in Toronto. The bottom of the barrel suits at the bay are 150 plus 13 percent tax

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      #32
      Originally posted by wooltie View Post
      I wish we had that in Toronto. The bottom of the barrel suits at the bay are 150 plus 13 percent tax

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      That's $195 Canadian, right? Anyway, I wasn't including tax, because I live in a state with no sales tax.

      You'd certainly be able to pay $300 for a suit at a department store, if you wanted. But it's my sense that you needn't pay more than $150, as you can always find or wait for a sale. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

      Right now, today, some of Joseph A Banks' executive line suits (which are admittedly their entry-level suits) are going for $179, not including tax. And Joseph A Banks is surely higher quality and more expensive than Kohl's or JCP. For one thing, many of the executive line suits are pure wool.

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        #33
        Originally posted by srlclark View Post
        That's $195 Canadian, right? Anyway, I wasn't including tax, because I live in a state with no sales tax.

        You'd certainly be able to pay $300 for a suit at a department store, if you wanted. But it's my sense that you needn't pay more than $150, as you can always find or wait for a sale. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
        Yup. I agree with your comments. L

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          #34
          Originally posted by wooltie View Post
          Yup. I agree with your comments. L
          I want to be clear that I'm not saying not to get nicer suits at SuitSupply or Spier and Mackay. I own two (purple line) SuitSupply suits, one (blue line) shirt, and one tie, and a Spier and Mackay sport coat and two dress pants. I intend to buy more, although I do budget carefully for things at that price range. [I regard Spier and Mackay as just about within the affordable range, although at the top of it, and so I will end up picking up more of their stuff more quickly than I will more SuitSupply stuff. Actually, it's been more than two years since I got anything from SuitSupply. I need a special occasion to justify purchases at that price level. On the other hand, I just got the Spier sport coat in May 2017].

          All I am saying is that I want us not to buy into the idea that this stuff is "entry level" or "cheap." Sure, they are "entry level luxury suits," but they are not "entry level suits." And they cost a lot of money.

          (Same goes for Allen Edmonds when it comes to shoes. And I own a lot of pairs of Allen Edmonds).

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            #35
            Spier and Mackay's base fabrics are from an Italian mill.

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              #36
              Originally posted by srlclark View Post
              I want to be clear that I'm not saying not to get nicer suits at SuitSupply or Spier and Mackay. I own two (purple line) SuitSupply suits, one (blue line) shirt, and one tie, and a Spier and Mackay sport coat and two dress pants. I intend to buy more, although I do budget carefully for things at that price range. [I regard Spier and Mackay as just about within the affordable range, although at the top of it, and so I will end up picking up more of their stuff more quickly than I will more SuitSupply stuff. Actually, it's been more than two years since I got anything from SuitSupply. I need a special occasion to justify purchases at that price level. On the other hand, I just got the Spier sport coat in May 2017].

              All I am saying is that I want us not to buy into the idea that this stuff is "entry level" or "cheap." Sure, they are "entry level luxury suits," but they are not "entry level suits." And they cost a lot of money.

              (Same goes for Allen Edmonds when it comes to shoes. And I own a lot of pairs of Allen Edmonds).
              Very well said.

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                #37
                Originally posted by srlclark View Post
                The price is probably not similar. Most department store suits are going to go for $200 or less, and often much less. SuitSupply is very expensive, and Spier and Mackay is expensive. Those of us on this thread are used to higher prices, sure, but let's at least be honest with ourselves that we're paying high prices.

                (Even at Macy's, many suits will go for less than $200, and most for $250 or less. But Macy's is not a cheap department store. In the JC Penney's, Kohl's, and Bon Ton's of this world, I think most suits will go for in the range of $100-$150, on sale).
                When on sale, S&M's stuff approaches 200, and if you wait for the SS outlet sales, they can be had for near that as well. I should have clarified using the word "sale." Regarding department stores, Bonton has some cheap crap on sale for less than 200, sure, but is any of it all wool or even of average quality? Does any of it fit pretty well off the rack? I know none of their stuff is half or full canvassed, and the construction is not very good, plus those are sale prices; full retain costs more than $200/suit. The same goes for Macy's. Other stores such as Nordstrom, J.Crew, Bonobos, etc. are certainly similarly priced to S&M or SS when on sale, and sometimes cost even more. JC Penny and Kohls isn't in the same league as S&M or SS, so I didn't even consider them.

                If you're looking to spend $100, then of course I don't recommend SS or S&M, but if you're approaching $250-400, in my opinion it's smarter to go with something from a manufacture like one of those guys. And based on what I've seen at the local department stores here, the average price for a suit is not less than $200. YMMV

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by srlclark View Post
                  I want to be clear that I'm not saying not to get nicer suits at SuitSupply or Spier and Mackay. I own two (purple line) SuitSupply suits, one (blue line) shirt, and one tie, and a Spier and Mackay sport coat and two dress pants. I intend to buy more, although I do budget carefully for things at that price range. [I regard Spier and Mackay as just about within the affordable range, although at the top of it, and so I will end up picking up more of their stuff more quickly than I will more SuitSupply stuff. Actually, it's been more than two years since I got anything from SuitSupply. I need a special occasion to justify purchases at that price level. On the other hand, I just got the Spier sport coat in May 2017].

                  All I am saying is that I want us not to buy into the idea that this stuff is "entry level" or "cheap." Sure, they are "entry level luxury suits," but they are not "entry level suits." And they cost a lot of money.

                  (Same goes for Allen Edmonds when it comes to shoes. And I own a lot of pairs of Allen Edmonds).
                  This I agree with. I think we're mostly on the same page here.

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                    #39
                    It's indisputable that true half-canvassing is better than fused, however, it has become such a marketing tool that I'm not sure that every suit that claims to be half-canvassed really is (in a meaningful way).


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                      #40
                      Originally posted by iviustang50h View Post
                      When on sale, S&M's stuff approaches 200, and if you wait for the SS outlet sales, they can be had for near that as well. I should have clarified using the word "sale." Regarding department stores, Bonton has some cheap crap on sale for less than 200, sure, but is any of it all wool or even of average quality? Does any of it fit pretty well off the rack? I know none of their stuff is half or full canvassed, and the construction is not very good, plus those are sale prices; full retain costs more than $200/suit. The same goes for Macy's. Other stores such as Nordstrom, J.Crew, Bonobos, etc. are certainly similarly priced to S&M or SS when on sale, and sometimes cost even more. JC Penny and Kohls isn't in the same league as S&M or SS, so I didn't even consider them.

                      If you're looking to spend $100, then of course I don't recommend SS or S&M, but if you're approaching $250-400, in my opinion it's smarter to go with something from a manufacture like one of those guys. And based on what I've seen at the local department stores here, the average price for a suit is not less than $200. YMMV
                      Judging from the other posts, I think we agree. Absolutely, all that stuff at JCP or Kohl's is very poorly made and often not wool or any other natural fiber. All I was saying is that it is cheaper, and that I think we should admit that our definition of "affordable" is more expansive than that of most men.

                      I didn't think of J. Crew or Bonobos as department stores; I agree absolutely that they are at least as expensive as SuitSupply and more than Spier and Mackay. And when I last shopped for a suit a couple of years ago, I did indeed choose SuitSupply over J. Crew (although I like J. Crew, too, and think that for rarer items, it's better value than SuitSupply. For example, I have two Ludlow topcoats and one Dock peacoat, and two of the three, I got for less than $120 on spring clearance. SuitSupply's outerwear might better but it's going to be three or more times that price, and I don't think it's that much better). I have no personal experience with Bonobos and unless I hurry up and pick something up before the sale to Walmart goes through, I'm not going to get any, as I won't buy from them post-sale.

                      Nordstrom certainly is a department store, but it's a very expensive one. I think we'd have to be fair and say that at least some stuff at Nordstrom is better made than SuitSupply or Spier and Mackay, but: a) It'll likely be much more expensive, or/and b) It may well be less stylish and boxier fitting.

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