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    #31
    What offends me is that you're calling a company racist simply because of your subjective belief that their ad campaign is racist. Not something they said. Not based on any hard and fast evidence. But, simply based on your personal interpretation. The fact that you cannot answer my question with anything other than a "hahaha" and another question proves that you simply do not have an answer. Forgive me, but calling someone or something racist should require facts...not just your lofty theories and opinions.

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      #32
      So we can't look at their actions? You mean, unless they say they're racist (leaked video, leaked memos) or we run some kind of undercover sting on their hiring or something there's no proof. We can't look at their actions because it's always a possibility they just didn't think about it and randomly only picked white people for their shoot (and white people for their friends and family).

      Hey, maybe only white models were available. Maybe they wanted a white musician but the guy got sick. We just don't know.

      That's the standard you want? Proof of intent, not evidence of behavior or outcomes. Proof.

      Well that's the standard that allows low-level but pervasive racism to exist. Thanks for perpetuating that standard.

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        #33
        Like I said, Facts > Your opinions.

        By your logic, you would also agree that if Vineyard Vines had an ad campaign full of only African Americans, or Latinos, or Asian Americans......not a white person to be found in the pages....that would also be a racist act from which we could conclude that Vineyard Vines is discriminatory towards whites. Right?

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          #34
          sheesh. this is a lot to process for what was destined to be a 2 reply post!

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            #35
            Originally posted by mFriedman View Post
            Like I said, Facts > Your opinions.
            The fact is that the company picked a racist stereotype* for the one black person, plus all-white models.

            And that fact offends me as a person of color.

            That's a fact.

            And person of color expressing that seems to offend you.

            It's remarkable how some (SOME) white guys get offended by talking about race and diversity (or lack of it). So fragile.

            * PS - I know black people with dreadlocks who play music and have no problem with showing them. But if that's the only black person you show, you're perpetuating a stereotype.
            Last edited by JT10000; April 21, 2017, 03:43 PM.

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              #36
              Originally posted by JT10000 View Post
              The fact is that the company picked a racist stereotype* for the one black person, plus all-white models.

              That's two facts.

              And that fact offends me as a person of color.

              That's a fact.

              And person of color expressing that seems to offend you.

              It's remarkable how some (SOME) white guys get offended by talking about race and diversity (or lack of it). So fragile.

              * PS - I know black people with dreadlocks who play music and have no problem with showing them. But if that's the only black person you show, you're perpetuating a stereotype.
              Lord.

              A company making a choice to have white models is NOT a racist act. Is Jet magazine racist for having nothing but black people within its pages? Is BET racist for perpetuating white stereotypes in their programming? You can pull whatever card you want to support your flawed argument, it won't make it true. There is REAL racism going on in the world which gets trivialized by this kind of non-sense.
              You can never have enough shoes

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                #37
                You're offended by a clothing company's ad campaign....yet I'm fragile. Ok, got it.

                I'm not offended by you having an opinion at all. You are certainly entitled to them. That said, I do not appreciate the veiled swipe that I am somehow racist for challenging your assumptions, which apparently now include the assumption that I am white (hint, I'm not). Somewhat racist of you, isn't it? Jumping to a conclusion without knowing my ethnicity.

                And again, you cannot answer my question. You just spout how racist everything is.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by mFriedman View Post
                  And again, you cannot answer my question. You just spout how racist everything is.
                  I take it as a compliment. Usually when you called racist or something-phobic it means that your logical argument can't be refuted.
                  You can never have enough shoes

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by mFriedman View Post
                    That said, I do not appreciate the veiled swipe that I am somehow racist for challenging your assumptions, which apparently now include the assumption that I am white (hint, I'm not). Somewhat racist of you, isn't it? Jumping to a conclusion without knowing my ethnicity.
                    I'm not saying you're racist in intent. I'm saying your actions (in this case) help perpetuate racism. They do. You're asking for a nearly impossible standard to denounce or talk about racism. So you're protecting it.

                    Hey, I'm a little racist against black people too - unintentionally but still I am. I grew up in this society, so it's rubbed off on me too from consuming our mass media and behavior. I think you should check yourself - both your intentions (which I cannot know) perhaps by taking the implicit bias test about racism. And also think about your behavior. Ask yourself why you demand proof in this domain.

                    Here's a related example. I'm a guy and a bit sexist. Certainly in my behavior. I interrupt female colleagues more than I do men, as one example. But I am working on it. And when someone points that out - even if it wasn't my intent but just my behavior - I don't say "You don't know my intent" but rather think about it and try harder to be better. When I hear a woman complain about what they perceive as bad treatment, my first response is no longer "You don't have proof" or "I wasn't intending that." It's "thanks" and I think about it some more.

                    Originally posted by mFriedman View Post
                    You just spout how racist everything is.
                    Everything? Nice straw man bro.

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                      #40
                      Again, you refuse to answer my question, so I will assume after three attempts that you do not have an answer. Good day and enjoy the race-obsessed glasses through which you obviously see the world.

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by mFriedman View Post
                        Again, you refuse to answer my question, so I will assume after three attempts that you do not have an answer..
                        Here's the answer. Maybe a little discriminatory, but not in an important way. It's like black history month - carving out spaces that don't exist enough.

                        So what about my question about what it takes for your to draw conclusions. Do you always need explicit proof or can you use weaker evidence?

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by mFriedman View Post
                          Again, you refuse to answer my question, so I will assume after three attempts that you do not have an answer. Good day and enjoy the race-obsessed glasses through which you obviously see the world.
                          So [MENTION=3077]JT10000[/MENTION] must bend to your will and satisfy only your standard of proof? You don't see any irony in that? Jesus....

                          Comment


                            #43
                            I asked JT10000: "By your logic, you would also agree that if Vineyard Vines had an ad campaign full of only African Americans, or Latinos, or Asian Americans......not a white person to be found in the pages....that would also be a racist act from which we could conclude that Vineyard Vines is discriminatory towards whites. Right?" That was a question based on the rational he asserted earlier in the thread. It was not a request to satisfy some standard of proof. Try to keep up, buddy.

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                              #44
                              I have one Vineyard Vines item, a tie with my university's logo on it which I received for my undergrad graduation. It is made in USA actually, but I don't find its quality particularly high. I'm sure it was pretty expensive too, but I don't recall. Don't have any experience with them beyond that simply because their whole vibe doesn't really interest me too much.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by mFriedman View Post
                                I asked JT10000: "By your logic, you would also agree that if Vineyard Vines had an ad campaign full of only African Americans, or Latinos, or Asian Americans......not a white person to be found in the pages....that would also be a racist act from which we could conclude that Vineyard Vines is discriminatory towards whites. Right?" That was a question based on the rational he asserted earlier in the thread. It was not a request to satisfy some standard of proof. Try to keep up, buddy.
                                You're so politely condescending, yet you don't realize that no one owes you anything.
                                Last edited by LesserBlackDog; April 22, 2017, 05:35 PM. Reason: don't be a dick

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