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    Originally posted by TMann View Post
    [MENTION=13399]DocDave[/MENTION] and [MENTION=2622]hornsup84[/MENTION]: The big "draw" of the Maratac Mid Pilot is that it's only 39mm wide. Most of the pilot watches out there are 44mm and greater. If your wrist is large enough to wear full-size pilot watch, then you have a lot of good options. But if you're a small wristed guy, your options are limited.
    That's a draw if you went for the mid; my wrist is large enough to handle the large pilot (albeit my largest watch), so was giving my $0.02 on Maratac vs. the other options mentions.

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      Originally posted by hornsup84 View Post
      That's a draw if you went for the mid; my wrist is large enough to handle the large pilot (albeit my largest watch), so was giving my $0.02 on Maratac vs. the other options mentions.
      The other important detail that I forgot to add is that I paid in the mid-200s for this watch since it was used; the current new price is about $400. Based on the reviews that I've read, the new price used to be in the low-200s, which made this watch a great bargain. Now that it's gone up by over $100, I can't really recommend the new one. There are a lot of other great watches that one could buy for that much money.

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        Originally posted by TMann View Post
        The other important detail that I forgot to add is that I paid in the mid-200s for this watch since it was used; the current new price is about $400. Based on the reviews that I've read, the new price used to be in the low-200s, which made this watch a great bargain. Now that it's gone up by over $100, I can't really recommend the new one. There are a lot of other great watches that one could buy for that much money.
        A fair point, pretty sure I paid in the $250 range for mine a few years ago.

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          Tag Heuer formula 1 today.

          [MENTION=15111]TMann[/MENTION] 44mm is a pretty big watch. I'm not sure if I'd be able to pull of off. If have to try the watch on in person first.

          [MENTION=2622]hornsup84[/MENTION] I'm not sure where I land on the homage page. I see both sides of the discussion and even own a couple of homage style watched myself.

          [MENTION=2341]LesserBlackDog[/MENTION] looking forward to seeing some pics of the new watch.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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            Steinhart OOV rescheduled to arrive tomorrow, w00t.

            Seiko 5 today...



            (recycled pic)
            Ben

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              Originally posted by DocDave View Post
              [MENTION=2622]hornsup84[/MENTION] I'm not sure where I land on the homage page. I see both sides of the discussion and even own a couple of homage style watched myself.
              I'll save my full soapbox speech for another time, but I just don't appreciate companies that simply rip off designs from better known, more expensive watches. They avoid being fakes by stamping their name on it vs. Rolex, but most of the Steinhart Ones ( https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/d...html?modell=82 ) are substantially based off of some version of Rolex, be it the Sub (current and vintage forms), Explorer or GMT Master ii. I don't mind the vintage homages as much, particularly for the watches that are very old/rare and hard to obtain (not just due to pricing); however, the models that rip off current Rolex models (or prevalent enough used, in the case of the GMTs) that really piss me off. If you take off Steinhart and their logo and slap on Rolex and a crown, it's a decent fake for the Sub, LV/green sub, and 3 GMTs). Yes, they do have very minor differences and are a bit bigger (42 vs 40mm), but there's no way that someone can argue they aren't just stealing the designs if you compare side by side. One I pulled from the interwebs quickly:

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                I don't loathe homages - that is to say, I don't consider them just "technically legal fakes" like some people do. But in terms of what I, myself, am willing to buy and wear, I generally prefer original designs. The exception is homages to rare, out-of-production, or vintage pieces. For example, it's hard to feel bad that I am simply wearing a cheap copy of something (Steinhart OOV) when the maker of the original design (Rolex 6200/6538) is, itself, cashing in on the vintage craze with its own budget reproduction (Tudor BBN). *shrug*
                Last edited by LesserBlackDog; August 30, 2016, 03:22 PM.
                Ben

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                  Originally posted by hornsup84 View Post
                  I'll save my full soapbox speech for another time, but I just don't appreciate companies that simply rip off designs from better known, more expensive watches. They avoid being fakes by stamping their name on it vs. Rolex, but most of the Steinhart Ones ( https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/d...html?modell=82 ) are substantially based off of some version of Rolex, be it the Sub (current and vintage forms), Explorer or GMT Master ii. I don't mind the vintage homages as much, particularly for the watches that are very old/rare and hard to obtain (not just due to pricing); however, the models that rip off current Rolex models (or prevalent enough used, in the case of the GMTs) that really piss me off. If you take off Steinhart and their logo and slap on Rolex and a crown, it's a decent fake for the Sub, LV/green sub, and 3 GMTs). Yes, they do have very minor differences and are a bit bigger (42 vs 40mm), but there's no way that someone can argue they aren't just stealing the designs if you compare side by side. One I pulled from the interwebs quickly:

                  But its what's inside that matters!

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                    Originally posted by aps2012 View Post
                    But its what's inside that matters!
                    Not for status symbols and, IMO, that's the real source of the dispute. People who are against homages oppose them because they dilute the recognizable status of expensive watches. People who are pro-homage, on the other hand, want to be able to fake the status symbol without resorting to outright forgeries. It's all a little silly.

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                      Originally posted by AngusM View Post
                      Not for status symbols and, IMO, that's the real source of the dispute. People who are against homages oppose them because they dilute the recognizable status of expensive watches. People who are pro-homage, on the other hand, want to be able to fake the status symbol without resorting to outright forgeries. It's all a little silly.
                      Having spent a lot of time in the Affordables section of the Watchuseek forums, I don't think this view is fully accurate. Sure, there are people who want to look like they have a Rolex without wearing a counterfeit, but there are also a lot of people who just really, really love the classic designs of these watches, really love the iconic-ness of the watches themselves and their histories, but know that they will simply never be able to afford the $6,000+ it takes to own a real Sub (or whatever the original watch is - though TBH, the Sub and various other iconic Rolex designs are definitely the most popular watches to duplicate). So they get an homage. It's not about status in the sense that they aren't looking to show off to anyone, they just want the watch for their own enjoyment and to feel however it is that people feel when they get to wear an iconic design on their wrist.
                      Ben

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                        Originally posted by LesserBlackDog View Post
                        Having spent a lot of time in the Affordables section of the Watchuseek forums, I don't think this view is fully accurate. Sure, there are people who want to look like they have a Rolex without wearing a counterfeit, but there are also a lot of people who just really, really love the classic designs of these watches, really love the iconic-ness of the watches themselves and their histories, but know that they will simply never be able to afford the $6,000+ it takes to own a real Sub (or whatever the original watch is - though TBH, the Sub and various other iconic Rolex designs are definitely the most popular watches to duplicate). So they get an homage. It's not about status in the sense that they aren't looking to show off to anyone, they just want the watch for their own enjoyment and to feel however it is that people feel when they get to wear an iconic design on their wrist.
                        You're absolutely right. What I should have said was that the homage fans want the classic styling of the status watches, not necessarily to fool people (since I'm in the pro-homage camp, I guess I over-swung in trying to account for my bias). Come to think of it, I was probably a little harsh on the anti-homage crowd, too. That's what I get for trying to be pithy.

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                          Originally posted by AngusM View Post
                          You're absolutely right. What I should have said was that the homage fans want the classic styling of the status watches, not necessarily to fool people (since I'm in the pro-homage camp, I guess I over-swung in trying to account for my bias). Come to think of it, I was probably a little harsh on the anti-homage crowd, too. That's what I get for trying to be pithy.
                          You mentioned that homage fans want the classic styling of the status watches, so the questions to be asked are, how much is that classic styling worth, and is it every consumer's right to own that styling?

                          To answer the first question of how much is the styling worth, think about the movement inside the watch. Let's take Rolex for example. Their R&D division puts in time, money, and resources, into designing the in-house movements that go into their watches. If Rolex wants to charge $6000 for their watch with their in house movement in it, we can all agree that you should not be able to get that same in house movement in a non-Rolex watch unless Rolex somehow gets paid for it. Since Rolex also puts in time, money, and resources, into the designs of their watches, I think that their designs have some positive value assigned to them as well. Rolex puts in a lot of efforting on marketing and advertising to convince consumers that that specific design is desirable, and these homage or copy watches freely benefit from that. To me, it's strange that other companies can use and profit off of a design that Rolex spent time and money creating, without paying Rolex anything. Maybe the mere existence of Rolex sub homages somehow strengthens Rolex's brand name (as something worth copying and aspiring to), but my gut feeling is, if you asked the CEO of Rolex whether he would prefer a world without Rolex homages or a world with Rolex homages, he'd probably say a world without Rolex homages (or he might be indifferent).

                          Since the existence of homages probably hurts the producer who spends resources coming up with the design, the question now is, do the needs of the consumer take priority over the bottom line of the producer? If you look at an industry like pharma, where the product being sold (healthcare) is something that every human (arguably) has the right to, the answer leans towards yes. Companies spend enormous amounts on R&D towards a new drug. The first company to introduce a new drug gets monopoly profits on that drug for ~10 years, where nobody else is allowed to sell that drug. After that monopoly period is over, everyone has the right to manufacture generics for a much lower cost to the consumer. This way, the incentive to innovate and come up with new drugs is retained, while consumers can still benefit from lower prices. Now back to the watch industry; is there some reason that everyone should be able to wear the Rolex sub design even if they don't pay what Rolex deems the design is worth? As consumers, just because we want something, does not mean that we deserve to have it.

                          A giant disclaimer: the reality of things is much more complex than what I wrote above. Lines become murky when it comes to what is a blatant copy and what is an homage. There are only so many designs choices out there, you could argue that almost every watch copies some aspect of another watch; I'm sure that the Rolex sub was "inspired" by something else. At the end of the day, it's not like Rolex is getting bled dry by all the Rolex homages out there, and as long as it's not really hurting anyone we should all buy and wear what makes us happy.
                          Instagram: WoofOrWeft

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                            Simple timex with FormFunctionForm leather strap today. No big meetings and it's small enough that I can be active


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                              Originally posted by Token View Post
                              You mentioned that homage fans want the classic styling of the status watches, so the questions to be asked are, how much is that classic styling worth, and is it every consumer's right to own that styling?

                              To answer the first question of how much is the styling worth, think about the movement inside the watch. Let's take Rolex for example. Their R&D division puts in time, money, and resources, into designing the in-house movements that go into their watches. If Rolex wants to charge $6000 for their watch with their in house movement in it, we can all agree that you should not be able to get that same in house movement in a non-Rolex watch unless Rolex somehow gets paid for it. Since Rolex also puts in time, money, and resources, into the designs of their watches, I think that their designs have some positive value assigned to them as well. Rolex puts in a lot of efforting on marketing and advertising to convince consumers that that specific design is desirable, and these homage or copy watches freely benefit from that. To me, it's strange that other companies can use and profit off of a design that Rolex spent time and money creating, without paying Rolex anything. Maybe the mere existence of Rolex sub homages somehow strengthens Rolex's brand name (as something worth copying and aspiring to), but my gut feeling is, if you asked the CEO of Rolex whether he would prefer a world without Rolex homages or a world with Rolex homages, he'd probably say a world without Rolex homages (or he might be indifferent).

                              Since the existence of homages probably hurts the producer who spends resources coming up with the design, the question now is, do the needs of the consumer take priority over the bottom line of the producer? If you look at an industry like pharma, where the product being sold (healthcare) is something that every human (arguably) has the right to, the answer leans towards yes. Companies spend enormous amounts on R&D towards a new drug. The first company to introduce a new drug gets monopoly profits on that drug for ~10 years, where nobody else is allowed to sell that drug. After that monopoly period is over, everyone has the right to manufacture generics for a much lower cost to the consumer. This way, the incentive to innovate and come up with new drugs is retained, while consumers can still benefit from lower prices. Now back to the watch industry; is there some reason that everyone should be able to wear the Rolex sub design even if they don't pay what Rolex deems the design is worth? As consumers, just because we want something, does not mean that we deserve to have it.

                              A giant disclaimer: the reality of things is much more complex than what I wrote above. Lines become murky when it comes to what is a blatant copy and what is an homage. There are only so many designs choices out there, you could argue that almost every watch copies some aspect of another watch; I'm sure that the Rolex sub was "inspired" by something else. At the end of the day, it's not like Rolex is getting bled dry by all the Rolex homages out there, and as long as it's not really hurting anyone we should all buy and wear what makes us happy.
                              This is an interesting discussion, I think, that can also be applied to other elements of style and men's fashion. We can probably have the same debate over briefcases (Filson, et al.), or even over ocbds. The now ubiquitous shirt was designed (researched, engineered, what have you) by Brooks Brothers and can now be had at Target for almost 1/10th the cost of the BB "original". Some add pockets, some have unlined collars, or locker loops ...

                              Another area could be cars, but I'm not going to touch that because I am in no way qualified/interested in cars (when I have to drive, I have to remind myself: key goes in, car goes on).

                              Much like you, I know the reality is much more complex. I know it's not exactly a one-for-one trade off -- watches have especially become a heated topic -- but I think this gets at the heart of a lot of discussion/questions on this forum about when does something go from trend to classic? I don't think there's a wrong answer, necessarily, but that's just like, my opinion, man.

                              Continuing the trend... Disclaimer 1: I'm talking about stylistic homages and not fakes (as I assumed we all were). Disclaimer 2: I own an a fake rolex. Not even an homage. My grandpa bought it, knowing full well it was fake but thought it was clever or something (he died before I was born so I have no clue as to mindset except through stories), and it's been passed down as "THE" family watch. I don't wear it often (if ever, really) because it's not my style, but it has immense sentimental value. I am also upfront about it when people notice or ask me about it, on the rare occasions it sees wear. If I have kids, someday it will be their turn to wonder what the appeal of this watch was...

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                                Went with the Daniel Wellington today. NATO picked separately.


                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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