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Questions about Combatant Gentlemen suit & coat composition??

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    #31
    Originally posted by Matchbook View Post
    While I certainly don't doubt his ability to use a microscope, I didn't realize that astrophysicists were qualified to visually inspect fabrics for material composition verification.

    That said, I've not purchased anything from Combatant Gentleman for several reasons, though I had considered it at one point. Part of that has to do with what I've perceived as being an inconsistency in their messaging, and in turn, what seems to me like a lack of transparency. But of course, that's just my opinion. This issue doesn't affect me, so I don't really care...but if it's the that big of a deal, why not take something to an actual lab to have it tested. Burn tests can be misleading and inaccurate due to fabric/material blending, and a tailor eyeballing a fabric isn't necessarily the most reliable evidence either.
    Well if we're gonna get technical, I'll confess and tell you that astrophysicists aren't qualified for much of what they fiddle with. And I'm only the son of one, so I'm even less qualified. Good news is that from what I can tell, one doesn't have to be especially adept to tell basic material composition and whether one type is combined with another.

    Basic searching yields plenty of information about many natural and synthetic fibers and how they look under magnification. Sometimes science isn't as hard as we make it out to be. I'm more worried about the ickies I'm gonna see under magnification of my several times worn suit.

    Additionally, I have swatches of things like rayon and acetate to compare to in educating myself. Microscope will have to do at least 100x magnification, but I imagine dad has such a thing laying around if I know him.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by ronrob View Post
      Well if we're gonna get technical, I'll confess and tell you that astrophysicists aren't qualified for much of what they fiddle with. And I'm only the son of one, so I'm even less qualified. Good news is that from what I can tell, one doesn't have to be especially adept to tell basic material composition and whether one type is combined with another.

      Basic searching yields plenty of information about many natural and synthetic fibers and how they look under magnification. Sometimes science isn't as hard as we make it out to be. I'm more worried about the ickies I'm gonna see under magnification of my several times worn suit.
      Fair, but at the end of the day, we're all laymen. Well, I imagine most of us. We can self-teach/educate all we want, but for conclusive results to this particular debate, I imagine someone is going to have sacrifice a CG garment to the clothing gods and send some samples to some labs. Official results from independent third-party analysts will nix any "well, you don't know what you're doing, bro!" arguments after someone looks at on their own from under a microscope. And also, those results build a much stronger argument for the people on the dissatisfied side of things here.

      If it comes back good, then CG is in the clear and everyone on Reddit can reference the results in this thread when this inevitably comes up again. If it comes back bad, then break out the pitchforks and torches. I'll bring the popcorn.

      Comment


        #33
        Also, if [MENTION=14809]MikeyLikey[/MENTION] decides to go through the test, might as well cut a jacket open and see what the garment construction looks like while you're at it.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Matchbook View Post
          Fair, but at the end of the day, we're all laymen. Well, I imagine most of us. We can self-teach/educate all we want, but for conclusive results to this particular debate, I imagine someone is going to have sacrifice a CG garment to the clothing gods and send some samples to some labs. Official results from independent third-party analysts will nix any "well, you don't know what you're doing, bro!" arguments after someone looks at on their own from under a microscope. And also, those results build a much stronger argument for the people on the dissatisfied side of things here.

          If it comes back good, then CG is in the clear and everyone on Reddit can reference the results in this thread when this inevitably comes up again. If it comes back bad, then break out the pitchforks and torches. I'll bring the popcorn.
          I don't suppose you'll be the one to pony up the lab fees and such?

          Having recently spent some time on jury duty on a murder case, I'm afraid the lab thing will be a time consuming dead end. "Yup, that's some fibers, possibly natural in origin" will about cover the official statements. You've never seen CYA until you've read a lab report. :\

          At some point, no offer is good enough and no evidence will matter to some, no matter the outcome. Is the lab tainted, did they confuse sample A and B, and did Lance Armstrong pee a crooked stream or not at all? Realize I'm being facetious here. We're waaaay overthinking this...it's just an offer to take a look and report what I see, and yes, I'm a lay person driving a microscope.

          I'm not even convinced CG has to do anything here - answering the claims of a couple of guys on an internet board hardly constitutes the well spending of time, it would seem to me. Textiles are pretty well regulated. If information gets posted about the makeup of the cloth, we'll probably just shoot holes in the customs forms.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by ronrob View Post
            I don't suppose you'll be the one to pony up the lab fees and such?

            Having recently spent some time on jury duty on a murder case, I'm afraid the lab thing will be a time consuming dead end. "Yup, that's some fibers, possibly natural in origin" will about cover the official statements. You've never seen CYA until you've read a lab report. :\

            At some point, no offer is good enough and no evidence will matter to some, no matter the outcome. Is the lab tainted, did they confuse sample A and B, and did Lance Armstrong pee a crooked stream or not at all? Realize I'm being facetious here. We're waaaay overthinking this...it's just an offer to take a look and report what I see, and yes, I'm a lay person driving a microscope.

            I'm not even convinced CG has to do anything here - answering the claims of a couple of guys on an internet board hardly constitutes the well spending of time, it would seem to me. Textiles are pretty well regulated. If information gets posted about the makeup of the cloth, we'll probably just shoot holes in the customs forms.
            Maybe. Like I said, I'm not particularly invested in this issue, really, so no, I won't pony up the sacrificial garment or lab fees. I don't own any CG products and most likely won't in the future, either.

            I would think that they might be invested in the opinions of a couple of guys on an internet board, since word of mouth marketing and referrals are still a big vehicle for moving product. One bad rumor on a high traffic website that gains traction could be pretty detrimental, I imagine. I mean, it certainly seems to me, given how closely they patrol message boards and forums, that they're very aware of their audience and where they frequent on the interwebz. I think it would be much easier for them to nip this in the bud on their end...and as the manufacturer, the burden of proof should ostensibly be on them.

            Anyways, I'd still take a look at your review and compar-o of different materials.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Matchbook View Post
              Maybe. Like I said, I'm not particularly invested in this issue, really, so no, I won't pony up the sacrificial garment or lab fees. I don't own any CG products and most likely won't in the future, either.

              I would think that they might be invested in the opinions of a couple of guys on an internet board, since word of mouth marketing and referrals are still a big vehicle for moving product. One bad rumor on a high traffic website that gains traction could be pretty detrimental, I imagine. I mean, it certainly seems to me, given how closely they patrol message boards and forums, that they're very aware of their audience and where they frequent on the interwebz. I think it would be much easier for them to nip this in the bud on their end...and as the manufacturer, the burden of proof should ostensibly be on them.

              Anyways, I'd still take a look at your review and compar-o of different materials.
              I'm still going to look into how much it would cost to do an independent lab test through one of the resources you linked to, but in the meantime this site looks promising too: http://www.fabpro.com/fiberIdentification.html

              I may be able to come up with a preliminary answer by doing a solvent test with 5% chlorine bleach, because wool is soluble in it while polyester is not. It wouldn't be "case closed definitive", but it'd be a step in the right direction.

              Comment


                #37
                If you all really want to test this beyond touch, alter one of these and have the tailor save you the leftover fabric. Then, (with appropriate protective wear) drop the fabric in a container of bleach. Both wool and polyester dissolve, but polyester leaves a telltale milky reside in the bleach. If you have trouble identifying this, drop a piece of polyester in bleach to compare.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by ianmichaelray View Post
                  If you all really want to test this beyond touch, alter one of these and have the tailor save you the leftover fabric. Then, (with appropriate protective wear) drop the fabric in a container of bleach. Both wool and polyester dissolve, but polyester leaves a telltale milky reside in the bleach. If you have trouble identifying this, drop a piece of polyester in bleach to compare.
                  I was about to ask, how can you tell, you know, if the garments a wool-poly blend? Good idea though, on the tailoring and keeping the left over fabric/swatch.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by ianmichaelray View Post
                    If you all really want to test this beyond touch, alter one of these and have the tailor save you the leftover fabric. Then, (with appropriate protective wear) drop the fabric in a container of bleach. Both wool and polyester dissolve, but polyester leaves a telltale milky reside in the bleach. If you have trouble identifying this, drop a piece of polyester in bleach to compare.
                    Am I reading this chart incorrectly then? Because my understanding was that polyester won't dissolve in bleach because it says "insoluble" in the table under that combination.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Matchbook View Post
                      While I certainly don't doubt his ability to use a microscope, I didn't realize that astrophysicists were qualified to visually inspect fabrics for material composition verification.

                      That said, I've not purchased anything from Combatant Gentleman for several reasons, though I had considered it at one point. Part of that has to do with what I've perceived as being an inconsistency in their messaging, and in turn, what seems to me like a lack of transparency. But of course, that's just my opinion. This issue doesn't affect me, so I don't really care...but if it's the that big of a deal, why not take something to an actual lab to have it tested. Burn tests can be misleading and inaccurate due to fabric/material blending, and a tailor eyeballing a fabric isn't necessarily the most reliable evidence either.
                      Just like you there is a whole litany of reasons that make Combat Gent not an option for me. Lack of transparency is one. The styling is the main reason. If the suits were more attractive I would consider them despite the issues with transparency. A big part of my problem with all the bashing is that all the claims against them are currently unsubstantiated. If tests come back that the suits truly are poly blend, that's one thing. I don't know any tailors that I trust to break down the fabric compositions of a suit. Also, the owner stated that he released two pea coats last year, one wool and one poly blend. As of right now, there is no evidence to support that this is not the case. Let's get some cold hard facts before we pass judgement.
                      My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSs1xkOEoJdPfZ4KRW575qA

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by ronrob View Post
                        I'm not even convinced CG has to do anything here - answering the claims of a couple of guys on an internet board hardly constitutes the well spending of time, it would seem to me.
                        Well, it's actually more than just a couple of guys...
                        My measurements, for context--> Body Type: Slim/Skinny |​ Weight: 175 lbs | Height: 6'1" | Neck: 16” | Chest: 40” | Waist: 33.5” | Shoulder: 18.75” | Sleeve: 35.5” | Bicep: 12.75” | Wrist: 6.75”

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by MikeyLikey View Post
                          Am I reading this chart incorrectly then? Because my understanding was that polyester won't dissolve in bleach because it says "insoluble" in the table under that combination.
                          I was probably wrong there. That would make it even easier. I do seem to remember thin synthetics breaking up and not "dissolving" in bleach, but that could be totally off.

                          In any case, I am sure wool dissolves within minutes in pure bleach, so a sample should be either totally gone if wool or just a mess if not within a short while.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashion...t_what/cxbug2g

                            https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashion...t_what/cxbtt0u

                            These appear to be the best options yet for getting to the bottom of this.
                            My measurements, for context--> Body Type: Slim/Skinny |​ Weight: 175 lbs | Height: 6'1" | Neck: 16” | Chest: 40” | Waist: 33.5” | Shoulder: 18.75” | Sleeve: 35.5” | Bicep: 12.75” | Wrist: 6.75”

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by thecharlesg View Post
                              A big part of my problem with all the bashing is that all the claims against them are currently unsubstantiated. If tests come back that the suits truly are poly blend, that's one thing. I don't know any tailors that I trust to break down the fabric compositions of a suit. Also, the owner stated that he released two pea coats last year, one wool and one poly blend. As of right now, there is no evidence to support that this is not the case. Let's get some cold hard facts before we pass judgement.
                              Bashing. You keep calling what we're doing bashing. I've corrected already, but I'll do it again, I guess. We're trying to investigate a potential issue, which we have reasonable cause to do. Those of us concerned that this company is outright lying to its consumers (apparently unlike you) but do not have the means to accurately determine an answer have gone searching for those who can help.

                              Maybe this Mikey's tailors were completely off base. Maybe these suits and coats are 100% wool (as I've said, I really hope they are) but CG has been given the opportunity to clear this up and they have not, so now we need to find the answers ourselves. Sitting by and quietly hoping that someone hands us an answer isn't going to get the job done, so this is the only recourse.

                              I don't understand how you can rally against what we're doing here (trying to get answers) and then in the next breath say "let's get some cold hard facts before we pass judgement." That's exactly what we've been trying to do the entire time.
                              My measurements, for context--> Body Type: Slim/Skinny |​ Weight: 175 lbs | Height: 6'1" | Neck: 16” | Chest: 40” | Waist: 33.5” | Shoulder: 18.75” | Sleeve: 35.5” | Bicep: 12.75” | Wrist: 6.75”

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by diversification View Post
                                Bashing. You keep calling what we're doing bashing. I've corrected already, but I'll do it again, I guess. We're trying to investigate a potential issue, which we have reasonable cause to do. Those of us concerned that this company is outright lying to its consumers (apparently unlike you) but do not have the means to accurately determine an answer have gone searching for those who can help.

                                Maybe this Mikey's tailors were completely off base. Maybe these suits and coats are 100% wool (as I've said, I really hope they are) but CG has been given the opportunity to clear this up and they have not, so now we need to find the answers ourselves. Sitting by and quietly hoping that someone hands us an answer isn't going to get the job done, so this is the only recourse.

                                I don't understand how you can rally against what we're doing here (trying to get answers) and then in the next breath say "let's get some cold hard facts before we pass judgement." That's exactly what we've been trying to do the entire time.
                                What if your wrong? Have you considered this. The damage done could be irreparable. Are you going to start a new thread to issue a public apology if your wrong? If you had proof, I would have no problem. If they are undoubtably lying, shout it from the rooftops. In the meantime your search for proof could be damaging to others and you don't seem to care.
                                My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSs1xkOEoJdPfZ4KRW575qA

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