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  • bruschetta
    replied


    Unfortunately, it appears that it is impossible for some members to share a difference of opinion and maintain a sense of civility and respect. I have closed this thread and deleted the offensive posts.

    Leave a comment:


  • thmage
    replied


    Looks like I'm late to the debate (rhyming too, what what?).


    I'll chime in and say I love my Android phone. It's quite easy to use and there's a lot of neat stuff you can do with it. However, I think iPhone are very well made and are better than Androids for many people.


    I mainly like Android because of it's open-sourced nature. You can install whatever you want, even a new OS. Also, as a developer, I still have trouble understanding why Objective-C is the way it is. It basically threw out all the standard syntax and decided to redo everything. Even if it might be a bit slower performance, I'll take my Java dev environment any day.


    Also, Google integration rocks!

    Leave a comment:


  • Cannon
    replied


    @shadow4life - I think you misread my posts. I definitely mentioned there is a higher end of Android phones, but that Android is also the source of the bargain phones. Am I wrong there? I didn't call anyone poor, or even imply that choosing certain phones is actual related to your value. Maybe you don't realize it, but there's people here who could definitely afford the iPhone range but have clearly stated they prefer the deals or openness of Android, making price and net worth rather separate.


    And you said the connectors cost "$50 a pop". That's not true, it's $19.99, like I said: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD818ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-cable?fnode=45


    And since I clearly fired you up somehow,


    /drops mic

    Leave a comment:


  • Cannon
    replied


    @LakeCharles - I don't think I've been arguing from a personally offended point of view, but if it came off that way, my mistake. I am mainly just refuting things I have a different understanding of. The essays are just responses to points stated ahead of my own, right?


    @shadow4life - Perhaps it is because this is all being done in text that it isn't clear, but I'm mellow.


    And I'm bound to get stuff wrong, but if I understand correctly the LG stopped pursuing the claim that Apple may have copied them because Apple held evidence to show that the iPhone had been designed long before LG revealed the Prada.


    The claim was backed up in the Samsung lawsuit when Apple revealed "Purple", the original name for the iPhone project. http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/30/apple-purple-phone-prototype/


    And I wasn't claiming they came up with multi-touch (though they did do it on phones).


    The pinch-to-zoom projector thing may indeed be something Apple saw and copied. I guess the courts will decide that one.


    Again, I don't claim that iPhone would be what it is without its competitors. I've already made that clear. We all know where the Notification center came from.

    Leave a comment:


  • shad0w4life
    replied


    " And considering that Apple is not a bargain brand, but a luxury consumer electronics design brand, why the heck are you acting like they should be charging what the fragmented Android makers charge?"


    You're seriously going to sit there and call me poor because I don't own a "luxury" phone? Are you kidding me, get off your god damn high horse before I knock you off it. It's snobs like you that end up sitting at a martini bar wonder why no one wants a "sensitive guy with a sweet phone". While us "poor" folks are out there busting our ass off at work, gym, sports, being social and actually talking to people.


    Taking an Aveo and slapping a Ferarri badge on it does not make it a luxury car.


    "However, those who have accumulated a wealth of 30-pin cables and accessories are going to have to fork over the big bucks to allow them to work with Apple's new Lightning connector. Apple is listing the Lightning to 30-pin adapter for $29 on its online store. Considering that you would need one adapter for each cable/accessory, things could get pricey pretty quickly."


    19.99 Huh? Take the blinders off.


    /done

    /rant off

    Leave a comment:


  • mixto
    replied


    There is too much obsession here. The best phone is the one that you as a user can fully utilize as you want to.

    Leave a comment:


  • LakeCharles
    replied


    I wonder how inoffensive I can be and still get Cannon to publish another essay?

    Leave a comment:


  • shad0w4life
    replied


    Cannon: You need to mellow, people are allowed to get on apples backs, along with saying how apple spawned the touchscreen revolution, the LG prada sold over a million units. Judging by the amount of prior art out there before the iphone was released, it seemed to be quite a popular idea. Heck I wanted Palm/iPaqs back in the day You're free to your opinion, but please don't go based on the opinion that no one else had designed a touch screen rectangle.


    Prior Art:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_PRADA


    2006, and it's not even the first, there was the Sony Prototype that apple may have borrowed from after they saw it.

    http://dvice.com/archives/2012/07/prototype-iphon.php#3


    Regarding multi touch: Microsoft surface had that


    and specifically pinch to zoom was borrowed from Mitsubishi.


    http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/08/13/apple_rubber_banding_pinch_to_zoom_patents_challen ged_by_samsung_witnesses.html


    I will also point out that in Korea, they found both companies guilty and said STFU whiners which is how it should be, just make your phones and sell them.

    Leave a comment:


  • LesserBlackDog
    replied


    When Apple fanboys (and -girls) became religiously invested in the Gospel of Saint Steve. ;-)


    I daresay the rest of us would not be so annoyed by Apple if its fans were not so creepily, cultishly devoted to it.


    Getting consumers to personally invest themselves into the products has been one of Apple's more successful marketing strategies. Many Apple fans view criticisms of Apple or its products as personal insults. Conversely, as others have mentioned, fans also tend to view their Apple products as expressions of their superior taste and their membership in a small but elite class of "chosen" consumers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cannon
    replied


    @BenR - Considering Apple has one of the lowest employee turnover rates in retail, I don't think they mind the way Apple sales work.


    I feel like people don't pay good attention to how these companies do major patent lawsuits. All of the major electronics makers are currently in lawsuits against each other. Apple is not uniquely pursuing action for basic patents. And it does not hurt the consumer because that isn't what the end goal is for Apple. Taking a look at how patent suits on already majorly released products go, Apple's best outcome is if Samsung, rather than having to recall phones and update software to remove features (phones that were already sold and on the market, mind you, meaning Apple would gain nothing from blocking the sale of old phones that already sold over iPhone), is if Samsung pays licensing costs to Apple for rights to keep using the designs (which they will do, because it would be hell for Apple's PR and Samsung's PR and customers if they refused to pay for the tech). Most often, this is where these calls to bar infringing products go, is to a licensing settlement. Then Apple gets instant cash for the designs, and Samsung's market goes unchanged.


    People really also seem to oversimplify the rectangle thing. They basically patented the iPhone's design layout, which was totally unique as a finger-navigated touchscreen phone at the time (the category didn't even exist on the market yet). Why can't Apple own the rights to a large rectangular finger-navigated touchscreen (that no one else had designed yet), a primary button on the bottom, with descriptive round-corner design? How many phones really fit that description when Apple requested rights to that patent? Just the iPhone.


    Yeah, now it seems so deeply part of the smartphone market, but that is because Apple did it so well and it is their design for the iPhone that spawned the touchscreen shapes for other companies afterwards that were based on the well-received iPhone design.


    And Apple invented pinch-to-zoom, so why the heck did other companies even program it in to their phones without paying for the right? If Android makers didn't want to pay for the tech to use a technique Apple came up with, they should have stuck with the original Android zoom buttons instead of copying Apple's great method.


    They all have gotten ideas from each other, so let's get off Apple's back with the misinformation here.


    @shadow4life - Let's not exaggerate here. The connectors haven't changed in about a decade, dating back to when it was invented for iPod. Apple includes the needed cable in every iPhone box, and will do so with the new one. Any extras cost $19.99, not $50. And considering that Apple is not a bargain brand, but a luxury consumer electronics design brand, why the heck are you acting like they should be charging what the fragmented Android makers charge?


    Apple has a kingdom because they keep themselves up there with things like price, design, and yearly updates. It sounds silly to me to act like they should be at the same prices as everyone else, which totally ignores what a brand and a name does. Again, you don't pick on designers for their name costing so much. Apple gets a premium for being the brilliant Apple.


    Why do people act like Apple is trying to be the same as Android and PC, but charge more? They are trying to be a premium brand with a more protected image. It makes no sense to criticize what they charge for their branded products like it makes no sense to criticize other industries' designers for theirs.

    Leave a comment:


  • shad0w4life
    replied


    When people turned them into a status symbol. And those damn justin long commercials!


    Funny thing is the old trend of smaller and smaller seems to have gone away now

    Leave a comment:


  • scrambledpotato
    replied


    When did phones become the new religion for people to argue about?

    Leave a comment:


  • shad0w4life
    replied


    Edit: This is almost like a nVidia vs ATI/AMD GPU arguement, everyone hates one side for a reason but the arguements people use are just terrible "ATI Drivers suck!" yet when I had one of my many nVidia cards...their driver team ended up wiping my hard drive because they had a bug with Dark Age of Camelot that would reset your PC mid game.


    To each their own, just don't piss on someone else for their enjoyment, unless it's something like the Holocaust didn't happen...then feel free to take a steaming....


    @jordan: My issue with the connectors is you have to buy them at about $50 a pop, and your old iphone docks might not work etc. I think it's an intentional tactic to sell more accessories and is just a slap in the face of people that have previous phones.


    Back on to the crazy thread hah. I'm not putting anyone down for their views unless they ask for it :P I will just share mine. I will point out though that I've turned down offers from electric companies doing contract renewals etc because they used and iPad instead of a normal piece of paper. I'm not supporting the usage of toys in a business world, I have to support systems and web interfaces so I'd prefer to not have to worry about 8 different types of phones and tablets trying to use them.


    I will give it to them for:


    - having good looking hardware


    - great battery life in their phones(most likely due to their sort of multitasking but not really multitasking impelmentation)


    -GPU in the iPhone has hands down been in the best of class category every time


    - I'm on the fence about the lack of hardware upgrading but it DOES make operating systems much much more stable, as seen with Windows having their certified hardware list etc.


    -They made it so anyone can use a PC.."click the big button down here grandma"


    Why I dislike apple as a company:


    They are trying to control every single thing a user does, soon you won't be able to install anything on any of their OS's without buying through their store..which developers will raise prices to cover the cost.


    BS marketing ploy "It Just works", which a few of my family members bought in to, and not one of them has had a mac book pro that "just worked". I had to fix the wireless adapter on one because it went nuts using DHCP, and the other...well screen died a month out of warranty and the replacement cost was insane.


    Charging so much more for such limited hardware.


    Locking down the OS to intel specific chips, I'm sorry but Microsoft got sued out the ying yang for including Internet Explorer in Windows in the US and not releasing Source Code in the EU...yet Apple can bundle thier own software and force you to buy a specific CPU?!


    iTunes & quicktime....they are viruses in my book, always trying to steal file associations and the iTunes auto sync...my buddy has a fun time when it wiped his ipod because I had formatted my PC and moved all the music :P


    And the whole I'm better than you attitude, I know it sounds cliche but I know quite a few Mac users and they have that attitude, heck one email from a higher up said "It should work, just like how a Mac works!"...which we wanted to respond "You're using it wrong"! Also a co worker that doesn't know how to do simple things on our servers(Scheduled task for example!), yet constantly told me how much better she was than me because of her education etc. And was also a big time mac supporter always putting down Windows/Windows users..and she's almost at six figures. This may not be directly thier fault but I sure don't appreciate it


    Idiotic lawsuits!


    Removal of Youtube and google maps from iOS?


    For everyones enjoyment: Jimmy Kimmel had people review the "iPhone 5" which was just a 4S :P

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rdIWKytq_q4#!

    Leave a comment:


  • LesserBlackDog
    replied


    As a (soon to be) lawyer, Apple's recent lawsuit against Samsung has soured me even more against the company. As some commentators on the issue noted, Apple basically sued Samsung over the kinds of "infringements" that occur and go un-sued every day. Patenting a rectangle with rounded corners and a button on the bottom? Really?


    Unfortunately, consumers are the ones likely to suffer for it. The changes that Samsung and other Apple competitors are going to have to make (like finding a different method to zoom besides the common and now-intuitive "pinch to zoom") will only result in consumer frustration, not real innovation. The fact that Apple's competitors have been hamstringed from using design features that we now regard as basic to smartphones in general will result in fewer choice and steeper prices for everyone.


    That's all basically an aside, but it colors my reaction to the iPhone 5 release, which like many, is a giant "meh." I guess copying other company's designs is ok when you're Apple and making a bigger, thinner phone, but NOT ok when you're Samsung and making a rectangular phone with rounded corners. I may not be a techie, but my perception is that Apple is no longer focused on innovation, and instead has become focused on protecting their market share through legal and marketing shenanigans.


    Another reason I dislike Apple: Their pricing strategy. They make a huge profit margin on their products, but no one else does. One of my summer roommates works in commissioned sales, including electronics like phones and computers. Because of Apple's pricing strategy, he literally makes more money off selling a cheap iPhone/iPad accessory than he does off selling an iPhone or iPad. He gets something like a $10 commission for selling a $600 iPad. He would rather sell just about anything other than Apple products. It disgusts me a little that Apple designers, marketers, and shareholders cut themselves such a huge slice of the pie and leave virtually nothing for the people who actually make or sell Apple products. When you pay a premium for a product, like a handsewn pair of raw denim jeans, it's because you believe that people who made the product deserve to be paid fairly. But that's certainly not the reason Apple prices its products the way it does.


    I bought an iPhone 4S this summer (my first smartphone) for two reasons - 1. I was already familiar with the basic functioning, as I've owned an iPod Touch for three years. 2. I wasn't interested in sorting through the overwhelming selection of non-iPhones when my smartphone needs (on-the-go browsing, maps, and email) are fairly basic.


    I just hope that by the time I need to upgrade this phone, there will be more viable competition, as unlikely as that seems at this point.

    Leave a comment:


  • BYC
    replied


    As a shareholder I love AAPL. They consistently crank out profits, have tons of cash, and have amazing marketing. They have set product upgrades every year that keep Apple lovers spending their money. Love em or hate em people will pay a premium for their products which are very well designed for functionality and aesthetics. The connector change was genius profit-wise, but a dick-move customer-wise.


    On the flip side they are overzealous with lawsuits, have factories that wouldn't meet US labor standards, and have prices that are way higher than the hardware within the device. I guess it just depends on which side your own (that comment about politics may not be so far off).

    Leave a comment:

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