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    #91
    Originally posted by devastitis View Post
    But this point isn't right. You don't have to be 160 lbs to be that lean at 6'1". You can be lean at 220+ lbs. They'll just have that much more muscle mass than you. It's certainly easier for professional athlete to be that lean at that weight because of their access to multi-million dollar facilities/trainers/nutritionists/chefs/etc. But the average joe at 6'1 220+ lbs can be lean too, it just requires much more dedication, and significant usage of time/energy that's limited by work/family/other daily activities. It's not easy of course to get that lean, and that's why most people can't do it, but it doesn't require people to be "on gear" to get there.

    But this is all moot because you don't want to bulk up to that weight, and don't find it appealing.
    According to everything I've read the upper limit for a 6' guy at 5-7% bf is 185 pounds. This is not attainable by everyone either. Bigger than that, your gonna need drugs. I'm not arguing that you can get big and be relatively low bf. But if someone is massive and shredded they are on gear. 6'2 240 sub 10% bf does not exist natty. That's a fact.

    Simeon panda is 6'2 220 jacked. Look at him and tell me that's possible natty. It's not.
    My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSs1xkOEoJdPfZ4KRW575qA

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      #92
      So is it not cool to say "steroids" anymore? I've read the word "gear" here more times than on a bike forum.

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        #93
        Originally posted by Alpha King View Post
        So is it not cool to say "steroids" anymore? I've read the word "gear" here more times than on a bike forum.
        ^THIS^

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          #94
          What is gear?

          Sent from my VS820 using Tapatalk

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            #95
            Originally posted by Alpha King View Post
            So is it not cool to say "steroids" anymore? I've read the word "gear" here more times than on a bike forum.
            I thought that was funny, too. "Gear" is definitely not a part of my vernacular... and I actually inject prescription testosterone cypionate. In my circles we just call that "T."
            Ben

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              #96
              Originally posted by Pepetito View Post
              What is gear?

              Sent from my VS820 using Tapatalk
              I had to google it. From what I've seen, it's just another covert term that all the cool gym rats use for steroids, but might cover other PEDs as well.

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                #97
                Originally posted by hornsup84 View Post
                I had to google it. From what I've seen, it's just another covert term that all the cool gym rats use for steroids, but might cover other PEDs as well.
                I've been creeping on the responses here, and I have some input, but haven't had the time to respond in depth, since there's actually a bit to address here. But yeah, "gear" refers to steroids. Other euphemisms include "T," obviously, and "Dat der Celltech," and other equally silly ways to mask that people are doing illegal drugs on fitness boards.

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                  #98
                  I've been reading a lot of articles and watching a lot of youtube videos the past few months. They talk about gear a lot and I just assumed that was what people are calling it these days. I have a friend who works out at the Venice Gold's which is famous for steroid users. Guys like Rich Piana, Jay Cutler, Arnold (in his day) all have worked out there regularly or currently do. Anyway my friend calls it gear too. He is more skeptical than me and thinks anyone who is very big is on roids. Anyway the term natty means not on roids, if you were wondering.
                  My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSs1xkOEoJdPfZ4KRW575qA

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                    #99
                    Originally posted by thecharlesg View Post
                    I've been reading a lot of articles and watching a lot of youtube videos the past few months. They talk about gear a lot and I just assumed that was what people are calling it these days. I have a friend who works out at the Venice Gold's which is famous for steroid users. Guys like Rich Piana, Jay Cutler, Arnold (in his day) all have worked out there regularly or currently do. Anyway my friend calls it gear too. He is more skeptical than me and thinks anyone who is very big is on roids. Anyway the term natty means not on roids, if you were wondering.
                    "gear" is hardly, if ever, used, in my experience, in my area (DC). I've only heard of the term on some lifting forums I occasional check up on. My friend calls steroids "cell-tech" which I think is hilarious. And "natty" means natural, and is used all over i.e. Natty Light being Natural Light, Natty CXL being Natural Chromexcel, etc.

                    But regarding your point about the upper limit being 185 lbs, does that mean a 6' person who has 5-7% bodyfat can be at most 185 lbs? If so, this simply isn't true. Even you agreed that professional athletes can be 200+ lbs at 6' and have a six pack. That would mean an average joe just needs to train and eat like professional athletes, and he'll eventually get there "natty."

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                      Originally posted by devastitis View Post
                      Well I'm not saying he was at 2.9% because there's measurement error, but I'm just stating it's much lower than you think people of that height and weight can get to. I just said he was listed at 244 lbs, I don't know what weight he was at when he measured 2.9%. I'd say he was probably ~6-8%, and that is very much doable with the multi-million dollar training facilities/trainers/nutritionists/chefs etc. that top tier NFL players have access to. It just requires an insane amount of dedication to get there, and only a tiny percentage of people have that kind of dedication.

                      And your pic, it says Greg Jones, a different rb. But visible six pack is below 10% bf.

                      And please let's not make this an nfl player shirtless pic thread.
                      If an NFL player looked like that bodybuilder, he'd spend half of every game in the locker room getting an IV because he was dehydrated. NFL players don't WANT to be below 5-6% BF because they can't retain enough water to get through a practice, let alone a game.

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                        Originally posted by burban View Post
                        If an NFL player looked like that bodybuilder, he'd spend half of every game in the locker room getting an IV because he was dehydrated. NFL players don't WANT to be below 5-6% BF because they can't retain enough water to get through a practice, let alone a game.
                        True, but it was the offseason and I said he was probably 6-8% realistically.

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                          Originally posted by devastitis View Post
                          "gear" is hardly, if ever, used, in my experience, in my area (DC). I've only heard of the term on some lifting forums I occasional check up on. My friend calls steroids "cell-tech" which I think is hilarious. And "natty" means natural, and is used all over i.e. Natty Light being Natural Light, Natty CXL being Natural Chromexcel, etc.

                          But regarding your point about the upper limit being 185 lbs, does that mean a 6' person who has 5-7% bodyfat can be at most 185 lbs? If so, this simply isn't true. Even you agreed that professional athletes can be 200+ lbs at 6' and have a six pack. That would mean an average joe just needs to train and eat like professional athletes, and he'll eventually get there "natty."
                          Professional athletes can have signs of a six pack at 6' 200 and be at 10-12% bf. At 5-7% bf an individual is totally shredded. 185 at say 6% bf is huge. What I have read says this is the limit and also difficult to achieve because you are walking a tight rope staying that lean and that muscular.

                          EDIT: This guy at natty or not wrote a guide about how big you can get. There are no citations, but it seems consistent with most of what is out there. If you know a guy that is 6' weighs more than 185 and is sub 7% bf I'd be interested in chatting with him and seeing how he accomplished it.

                          http://nattyornot.com/how-big-can-yo...hout-steroids/

                          One last point. It takes so much work to get shredded. In the process you lose not only fat but muscle. It also takes a crazy amount of work to get huge. I would love to see some information on how people are getting to be 185+ at 6' ripped without steroids.


                          Here we go. I found a better page. This is where some of the top natural body builders have got. These are guys with elite genetics and they are basically saying the same limits as I am.
                          http://getthisstrength.com/how-big-c...thout-steroids
                          [MENTION=11797]devastitis[/MENTION] I'm telling you just recently I did a lot of research on this stuff. I'm trying to find other sources now. If you can find contradictory information, I'd be glad to study it.

                          One last thing. It did say that the 185 limit was contest ready. You could potentially add 5-10 pounds through hydration. Regardless these are the most elite natty body builders of all time.
                          Last edited by thecharlesg; May 11, 2016, 11:58 PM.
                          My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSs1xkOEoJdPfZ4KRW575qA

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                            I just eat a lot of meat for protein to build muscle & fat for energy and don't eat carbs so I lose body fat. My fitness goal right now is to lose about 15-20 pounds of fat and gain 5-10 pounds of muscle. I weigh 200lb @ 6'2 right now and I hope to accomplish most of this by my friend's wedding in the middle of next month. Where I really wanna gain muscle is in my shoulders, arms, calves, and ass (chicks dig it), so I hit those days extra hard. I wouldn't say I'm fat, but I'm definitely not as lean as I want to be.

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                              Originally posted by CJMichaelRay View Post
                              I just eat a lot of meat for protein to build muscle & fat for energy and don't eat carbs so I lose body fat. My fitness goal right now is to lose about 15-20 pounds of fat and gain 5-10 pounds of muscle. I weigh 200lb @ 6'2 right now and I hope to accomplish most of this by my friend's wedding in the middle of next month. Where I really wanna gain muscle is in my shoulders, arms, calves, and ass (chicks dig it), so I hit those days extra hard. I wouldn't say I'm fat, but I'm definitely not as lean as I want to be.
                              Have you ever tried a combination of intermittent fasting and rpt. Basically the lean gains method. It's worked wonders for me.

                              One thing if I were you I'd rather operate at a deficit to lose fat or operate at a surplus to gain muscle. Unless you're a beginner it have taken time off (due to muscle memory) you're going to find it hard to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. However, when you lose fat, your muscles "pop" a bit more.
                              My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSs1xkOEoJdPfZ4KRW575qA

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                                Originally posted by thecharlesg View Post
                                Have you ever tried a combination of intermittent fasting and rpt. Basically the lean gains method. It's worked wonders for me.

                                One thing if I were you I'd rather operate at a deficit to lose fat or operate at a surplus to gain muscle. Unless you're a beginner it have taken time off (due to muscle memory) you're going to find it hard to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. However, when you lose fat, your muscles "pop" a bit more.
                                I'm doing something along the lines of a ketogenic diet, basically purging sugar from your body so it feeds off of fat (Idk the science of it, but it's worked wonders for me in the past) and I don't have the willpower for intermittent fasting haha

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