The diet and exercise thread

[Matchbook]

To be paranoid is to be so heavily influenced by anxiety and fear that a person acts irrationally. The idea of being forced into hand-to-hand combat unprepared is one likely to evoke anxiety and/or fear. The odds of being forced into hand-to-hand combat are infinitesimal. If the anxiety and fear a person feels at the prospect of being forced into hand-to-hand combat leads that person to adopt a demanding fitness regimen aimed at preparing for that remote possibility, I think that's an objectively irrational response and, therefore, paranoid and unhealthy.

My statement was a reasonable opinion, not rudeness. If I wanted to be rude I could have, I dunno, hurled obscenities at you. As for your second point, it really just repeats the mindset I've already identified as paranoid, so I have no other response.

If you're not trying to be rude, you probably shouldn't call people paranoid. Most people generally take offense to that. Or rather the implication of being paranoid, in this case (which is fairly easy to assume, since you were responding to his post). Does that mean that an equal or civil response requires cursing at you? No. But, if someone made the implication that could be construed that you're calling them a little unreasonably off-center, them getting annoyed with you isn't exactly hard to believe.

Anyways, I'm not paranoid, but I train with the intent of being able to be as fit as possible in the most extreme circumstances. Why? Because there's absolutely no downside in doing so. I'm strong, I'm fast, and I'm making myself harder to injure or kill, whether I'm in a fight with a Grizzly bear, out camping (where I might get injured or lost; strength will only help me here), or just bombing a hill snowboarding. Hand-to-hand combat generally comes to mind for people who actually have or have had jobs where that's a very real possibility. When I was still active duty, and even since I've been out as a civilian, I've found myself in, or have witnessed, situations where violence has happened suddenly and unexpectedly. So it's not unreasonable for someone with that sort of life experience, knowing that it's a possibility, to use that as one of the situations that they need to prepare for.

Most people I know who think of it as "paranoia" when wanting to be prepared for a fight have never been in a fight or in a situation where severe bodily harm from another person has been a real possibility for them. If not, good for you. I'm not going to begrudge someone thinking it's unnecessary. Just know that, if and when that ever happens, one person is going to be more prepared than the other for that situation. And again, there's absolutely no downside for training to that end. Being hard to kill in a fist fight also makes doing physical things in general much easier. You know, like opening mason jars and what not.

[Matchbook]

I find this is different depending on whether I've been lifting regularly or not. If I've taken a break for a few weeks (like when I was training for my 10k, or now after surgery recovery), the first day or two back at it does make me really sore, especially on the second day after the workout. But that doesn't happen once I get back in the swing of things.

Well, if you take a break for that long, DOMS is expected...you've lost adaptation taking that long of a break. So, it's like going back to an abbreviated noob status for working out. Which is why after you re-acclimate to your regimen, you don't get sore. If it kept happening...well, you're training too hard or too often.

what does a workout consist of?

Overtraining.

[AsianDapper]

It could just be one of the many reasons for training. There's nothing wrong with being prepared for those situations, no matter how remote the possibility of it happening is. He did come out belligerently in his next post, but I have difficulty believing that that's the one and only reason why someone would train that hard. Protecting his family is important, of course, but probably also the health/physicque benefits would also be another major reason why.




Seems like a lot of different exercises per workout. How long does a typical workout last and what does a workout consist of?

Not really.

I don't practice the "monday - shoulders, tuesdays - chest" routine so on and so forth.
I do the same set of exercises 3x a week.

With just free weights, its your usual bench, pull ups, squat, deadlift, bicep curl, dips, military press, tricep extension, alternate lat pull, lat row, leg curl and leg extension. Most of them I just do 3 sets of 12,12 and 8 and some of them I do a 15,15 and 10 to make 40 reps in fewer sets.

And I do it every other lunch break in the office

[AngusM]

It could just be one of the many reasons for training. There's nothing wrong with being prepared for those situations, no matter how remote the possibility of it happening is. He did come out belligerently in his next post, but I have difficulty believing that that's the one and only reason why someone would train that hard. Protecting his family is important, of course, but probably also the health/physicque benefits would also be another major reason why.

That's not consistent with how the idea was presented, though. [MENTION=14885]APinNC[/MENTION] said, "Every man should be gas station ready." I treated that statement as if it were sincere to show that it's a paranoid and unhealthy reason to work out. Unfortunately, you're probably right that it's not sincere, in which case the "Don't you wanna protect your family, bro?!" attitude is pretty clearly intended to make people feel bad and somehow less masculine for not buying into particular fitness trends/goals. That's just bullying, and I have no qualms about calling people out on it.

[AsianDapper]

Jesus Christ. Ostensibly, you do more reps in a single workout than I do over the course of ~2 weeks of workouts (six actual workouts).

LOL. Maybe i'm working out too much, i don't know.
Or I simply maybe doing it all wrong

[Kittiwake30]

This thread started like a Saturday Night Live skit but has some good advice for a guy like me trying to make a lifestyle change with yoga classes and some weights, etc. Weight loss has been really nominal, though - seven pounds for almost 14 weeks of work and fairly rigorous nutrition.

Here's the routine I've been following:

ARMS ARMS ARMS ARMS CHEST ARMS ARMS ARMS CHEST MAYBE BACK ARMS ARMS ARMS NOT LEGS CHEST ARMS ARMS ARMS

I am now afraid to go to the gas station without a gatling cannon mounted to my minivan to protect the family.

ARMS ARMS ARMS

[Matchbook]

LOL. Maybe i'm working out too much, i don't know.
Or I simply maybe doing it all wrong

Based on your rep/set/exercise schemes, and the fact that you're doing the exercises you mentioned in your last post, I would tell you that you're doing far too much volume...and correspondingly, probably too little weight, though I don't know your loading...you could be incredibly strong and I just don't know. I've seen stranger things...but to work through that much during a lunch break? I'm pretty confident that you'd benefit more (physically) from dropping the volume and increasing the weight.

The downside? None of your jackets or pants are going to fit. If you're looking to shred that last five pounds of fat, look at your diet more than anything else. Hell, you could pop some diuretics and not drink some water for a day and cut five pounds of water weight and probably look shredded. Obviously, that's not long-term...but whatevs.

[Matchbook]

Here's the routine I've been following:

ARMS ARMS ARMS ARMS CHEST ARMS ARMS ARMS CHEST MAYBE BACK ARMS ARMS ARMS NOT LEGS CHEST ARMS ARMS ARMS

Not enough arms workouts, brah.

Also, minimal weight loss is not uncommon during a lot of newbie fitness journeys; fat loss is replaced by corresponding muscle gain. Which is what you want. If you just drop a hell of a lot of weight rapidly, you could "wreck" your metabolism and also deal with ongoing hormonal issues.

[Kittiwake30]

I know slow process, I feel better and clothes fit better.

Strange thing, though - I am getting muscled on the outside of my arms ( triceps?) but not much bicep growth. Are curls the only thing that builds biceps?

I'm just kidding about the arm workout, but I was dying watching this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS-oRydlnCE

[AngusM]

If you're not trying to be rude, you probably shouldn't call people paranoid. Most people generally take offense to that. Or rather the implication of being paranoid, in this case (which is fairly easy to assume, since you were responding to his post). Does that mean that an equal or civil response requires cursing at you? No. But, if someone made the implication that could be construed that you're calling them a little unreasonably off-center, them getting annoyed with you isn't exactly hard to believe.

Anyways, I'm not paranoid, but I train with the intent of being able to be as fit as possible in the most extreme circumstances. Why? Because there's absolutely no downside in doing so. I'm strong, I'm fast, and I'm making myself harder to injure or kill, whether I'm in a fight with a Grizzly bear, out camping (where I might get injured or lost; strength will only help me here), or just bombing a hill snowboarding. Hand-to-hand combat generally comes to mind for people who actually have or have had jobs where that's a very real possibility. When I was still active duty, and even since I've been out as a civilian, I've found myself in, or have witnessed, situations where violence has happened suddenly and unexpectedly. So it's not unreasonable for someone with that sort of life experience, knowing that it's a possibility, to use that as one of the situations that they need to prepare for.

Most people I know who think of it as "paranoia" when wanting to be prepared for a fight have never been in a fight or in a situation where severe bodily harm from another person has been a real possibility for them. If not, good for you. I'm not going to begrudge someone thinking it's unnecessary. Just know that, if and when that ever happens, one person is going to be more prepared than the other for that situation. And again, there's absolutely no downside for training to that end. Being hard to kill in a fist fight also makes doing physical things in general much easier. You know, like opening mason jars and what not.

See comment below. I was being intentionally dismissive of the claim that every man should train for that possibility. I don't really mind if some people find that rude. And while I maintain that it would be irrational and paranoid for most* people to train based only on their fear of being forced into hand-to-hand combat, I honestly don't have a problem with one person doing it idiosyncratically. I do, however, have a problem with one person purporting to prescribe such paranoid behavior as the standard for masculinity.

*It should go without saying that those who regularly find themselves in dangerous situations should train for them.

[Matchbook]

I know slow process, I feel better and clothes fit better.

Strange thing, though - I am getting muscled on the outside of my arms ( triceps?) but not much bicep growth. Are curls the only thing that builds biceps?

I'm just kidding about the arm workout, but I was dying watching this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS-oRydlnCE

Hahaha. Dom is great. What's crazy is he's actually a pretty intelligent, well-spoken guy. He's just so damn convincing as his on-screen persona.

And curls aren't the only way. If you want to incorporate more bicep work into compound movements, look at bent-over barbell rows (I prefer Pendlay, though most people do Yates rows without realizing it), pull-ups/chin-ups of various iterations (I prefer close-grip hammer pull-ups for working size). Arms and smaller muscle groups generally respond more to "volume" and "pump," than major muscle groups like the back, legs, and chest. Essentially, any pulling movement will use the biceps.

Tbh, I wouldn't worry about it so much if you're just starting out. Just worry about the overarching, big-picture goals. Once you get closer to achieving that, then you can start worrying about specific muscle-group body sculpting, if that's your thing.

Also, calf raises are a waste of time. No one asked, but I'm just throwing that out there. They're largely determined by genetics, and little else, unless you gear up.

[hornsup84]

Not enough arms workouts, brah.

Also, minimal weight loss is not uncommon during a lot of newbie fitness journeys; fat loss is replaced by corresponding muscle gain. Which is what you want. If you just drop a hell of a lot of weight rapidly, you could "wreck" your metabolism and also deal with ongoing hormonal issues.

I'm all about that minimal weight loss when I am working out on a regular basis, but typically that's because I don't change my diet a ton and/or keep drinking, etc. I don't think anything that's transforming your body at a pace that isn't gradual is particularly healthy or a long-term solution, absent certain exceptions like severe obesity. That and I don't want to have 2 wardrobes (in shape wardrobe and fat ass wardrobe); my job's hours can be very varied, bordering on extreme hours when it's busy (which can last for a few months sometimes), so I occasionally fall out of my regular schedule and the reverse of fat to muscle happens...

I do find it's relatively easy to build back up in a short amount of time when I do come back from a lapse. I don't lift tons of weight, some prior injuries/surgeries keep me humble, but I do enough so that I wouldn't call myself sedentary or a couch potato. DOMS is a regular part of my workouts (particularly when doing squats), but that has more to do with the imbalance between my good and bad legs which has built up over time. Do what I can to work on making it better, but tough due to permanent after-effects of said surgeries.

[Matchbook]

See comment below. I was being intentionally dismissive of the claim that every man should train for that possibility. I don't really mind if some people find that rude. And while I maintain that it would be irrational and paranoid for most* people to train based only their fear of being forced into hand-to-hand combat, I honestly don't have a problem with one person doing it idiosyncratically. I do, however, have a problem with one person purporting to prescribe such paranoid behavior as the standard for masculinity.

*It should go without saying that those who regularly find themselves in dangerous situations should train for them.

I don't anymore, though. I still train like I might, though. Does that mean I'm wrong? I certainly don't think that makes me paranoid. The likelihood of me finding myself in a violent situation is low nowadays, given the company I tend to keep now, and the places I frequent (though living in an urban area like LA means it's probably higher here than say, smaller, more rural pop centers).

Anyways, I get what you're saying. But I also see, AP's point (and also a point I made) that, there's absolutely no downside to training for a fight or being "over-prepared" as it were. It's just much easier for a lot of traditionalists to frame preparedness in terms of "masculinity," I suppose.

[Kittiwake30]

Hahaha. Dom is great. What's crazy is he's actually a pretty intelligent, well-spoken guy. He's just so damn convincing as his on-screen persona.

And curls aren't the only way. If you want to incorporate more bicep work into compound movements, look at bent-over barbell rows (I prefer Pendlay, though most people do Yates rows without realizing it), pull-ups/chin-ups of various iterations (I prefer close-grip hammer pull-ups for working size). Arms and smaller muscle groups generally respond more to "volume" and "pump," than major muscle groups like the back, legs, and chest. Essentially, any pulling movement will use the biceps.

Tbh, I wouldn't worry about it so much if you're just starting out. Just worry about the overarching, big-picture goals. Once you get closer to achieving that, then you can start worrying about specific muscle-group body sculpting, if that's your thing.

Also, calf raises are a waste of time. No one asked, but I'm just throwing that out there. They're largely determined by genetics, and little else, unless you gear up.

Thanks, sound advice there. I actually enrolled in this at-home fitness thing and I'm suspecting it is targeted more toward women - it has weighted calf raises. I've been doing so many one-legged glute bridges that I think I may have sprouted ovaries.

[Matchbook]

I'm all about that minimal weight loss when I am working out on a regular basis, but typically that's because I don't change my diet a ton and/or keep drinking, etc. I don't think anything that's transforming your body at a pace that isn't gradual is particularly healthy or a long-term solution, absent certain exceptions like severe obesity. That and I don't want to have 2 wardrobes (in shape wardrobe and fat ass wardrobe); my job's hours can be very varied, bordering on extreme hours when it's busy (which can last for a few months sometimes), so I occasionally fall out of my regular schedule and the reverse of fat to muscle happens...

I do find it's relatively easy to build back up in a short amount of time when I do come back from a lapse. I don't lift tons of weight, some prior injuries/surgeries keep me humble, but I do enough so that I wouldn't call myself sedentary or a couch potato. DOMS is a regular part of my workouts (particularly when doing squats), but that has more to do with the imbalance between my good and bad legs which has built up over time. Do what I can to work on making it better, but tough due to permanent after-effects of said surgeries.

Interestingly enough, I just read a couple of articles that were trying to rationalize obesity and dieting, etc...and it illustrated the negative effects that are exacerbated by being obese and rapidly losing weight, e.g. Biggest Loser contestants all destroying their metabolisms and causing long-term hormonal and endocrine imbalances that they can't overcome...often times making them fatter than they were starting out.

I've always likened the gym to a garage. Your body is a marvel of Nature; it's like a Ferrari or a Lamborghini. Or, it could be a Honda Civic. Whatever. In either case, you wouldn't go work on your car in a garage without knowing what to do, would you? Or at least have a Helms manual, right? Same thing with your body. Far too many people start modding and working on their bodies e.g. extreme dieting, workout routines, or whatever, without actually know what they're trying to achieve or the best way to go about doing it.

As far as your situation is concerned...it sounds like you should just keep doing what you're doing, work around and watch old injuries, and if you can, increase frequency and consistency. Otherwise, yeah, it sounds like you'll be dealing with DOMS regularly...though I'd be curious to know what your squat routine looks like. There might be some changes you can make that would help out.