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    #16
    Originally posted by Brent k View Post
    anabolic window is such a myth. Total protein is much more important than timing.
    I wouldn't say it's a total myth. It's not the 30 minutes to 2 hours after a lifting session as most believe, but there is definitely truth to a better time to intake certain macronutrients. For those that are sedentary or are beginners in working out, it may not be a big difference, but when you're cutting trying to get to a certain percentage, or you're trying to bulk up to reach a certain strength level, it does make a difference. Fasting on non lifting days with little to no carbs, and eating for an 8-10 hour window post workout has worked wonders for me in the past for my cut. I'll do what works for me, and you do you.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Brent k View Post
      anabolic window is such a myth. Total protein is much more important than timing.
      Originally posted by hornsup84 View Post
      Agree that the window is a myth, but I'm hungry right after the gym (I go in the mornings and don't eat before) and I personally believe that people (and I know of my diet personally) don't get as much protein as they should. So do you "need" the shake right then? No, but it's quick and easy to do while I'm cooling down, and keeps me satiated for a bit until I eat some real food.
      I've never heard about the "anabolic window." However, I've always understood that there is a very real 30-45 minute post-workout window for endurance athletes. It has nothing to do with building muscle. Rather--as understood by an athlete, not a scientist--there's a brief period following extended cardiovascular exercise in which your body can more efficiently process carbohydrate to replenish glycogen stores. If you're training as a runner, a cyclist, or a swimmer (rather than simply doing cardio for general fitness), this is important because it prepares you to get out and train again sooner.

      I'm not going to argue if someone tells me this has been debunked. All I know is that back in my racing days, my next workout was always less than 12 hours away, so I always followed a ride with chocolate milk, cereal, or any other form of simple carbohydrate, just to make sure I didn't bonk on my next ride.

      If you're a runner (and if you're running 10 miles on a weekday, you probably are), drink the Gatorade. Even better, skip that and drink the Dr. Pepper, because sugar is your friend .

      http://velonews.competitor.com/2009/...workouts_89146

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        #18
        I believe it's been debunked in respect of protein intake timing, but I can't comment as to glyco replenishing, I just lift things and put them down. And occasionally (and begrudgingly) hop on a bike to sweat out toxins once in a while and warm up for said lifting.

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          #19
          Originally posted by facelessghost View Post
          I've never heard about the "anabolic window." However, I've always understood that there is a very real 30-45 minute post-workout window for endurance athletes. It has nothing to do with building muscle. Rather--as understood by an athlete, not a scientist--there's a brief period following extended cardiovascular exercise in which your body can more efficiently process carbohydrate to replenish glycogen stores. If you're training as a runner, a cyclist, or a swimmer (rather than simply doing cardio for general fitness), this is important because it prepares you to get out and train again sooner.
          This has always been my understanding too. But then I started thinking that all of the calories I just burned would be soaked right back up again if I downed a Gatorade. So I opted for nothing and went home parched. Then I wolfed down some breakie cereal before running out the door to work.

          Protein wise, I definitely should have eaten something last night after a ride. I was dragging my ass in the gym this morning.

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            #20
            Originally posted by DocDave View Post
            This has always been my understanding too. But then I started thinking that all of the calories I just burned would be soaked right back up again if I downed a Gatorade. So I opted for nothing and went home parched. Then I wolfed down some breakie cereal before running out the door to work.

            Protein wise, I definitely should have eaten something last night after a ride. I was dragging my ass in the gym this morning.
            Post-workout protein intake myth is definitely a myth. Granted, recovery is also a function of what your workouts/rest periods/deloads look like, but I have a 1300+lbs total at 184lbs right now, train hard several times a week, and I postpone workout meals/protein intake all the time and it doesn't affect my recovery or relative strength gain. I'm not elite, but I'm probably in the 98-99% of gen pop. The point being is that post-workout nutritional timing is overrated.

            To be completely honest, if you're worried about weight loss/body recomp so much that you don't want to put in simple carbs into your body after burning them, LISS or otherwise extended cardio isn't the most efficient way to go about it. A strength-centric, resistance training program should be taking most of your workout energy, imo, and cardio should play second fiddle here. That's assuming you're worried about "looking good" or "staying in shape." In the long run, it burns fat and calories more efficiently and for longer than LISS.

            Also, your protein intake wouldn't have helped you this morning, energy-wise. Should have drank some Gatorade after and then eaten a full meal post-run.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Matchbook View Post
              ...I have a 1300+lbs total at 184lbs...
              That's pretty impressive. What are the numbers from your three lifts? How long have you been lifting? I've been lifting about 2 years now and I just broke 1000 combined on my three lifts.

              As for post workout, I agree with what you say. I do often eat right after working out, but that's because I work out fasted at 5:30 AM and I'm starving when I finish, so I usually eat some sort of quick digesting carb like gummy bears or pixie stix followed a little bit later by 4 eggs with a little goat cheese because it's packed with protein and fat and it's easy to make every morning.

              But I think the most important factor in my recovery is sleep, not eating right after I finish working out.

              -John
              Last edited by papaholmz; May 29, 2015, 02:42 PM.

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                #22
                Originally posted by papaholmz View Post
                But I think the most important factor in my recovery is sleep...
                Wholeheartedly agree with this -- I know my work (and I'll be honest, social) schedule keeps me from getting all the sleep I should, and I can tell a huge difference in my recovery time when I'm sleeping well and when I'm not getting enough.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by papaholmz View Post
                  That's pretty impressive. What are the numbers from your three lifts? How long have you been lifting? I've been lifting about 2 years now and I just broke 1000 combined on my three lifts.

                  As for post workout, I agree with what you say. I do often eat right after working out, but that's because I work out fasted at 5:30 AM and I'm starving when I finish, so I usually eat some sort of quick digesting carb like gummy bears or pixie stix followed a little bit later by 4 eggs with a little goat cheese because it's packed with protein and fat and it's easy to make every morning.

                  But I think the most important factor in my recovery is sleep, not eating right after I finish working out.

                  -John
                  Thanks. And congrats on breaking into the 1k Club. That's a great milestone itself, and one that most recreational, non-competitive gym goers won't ever achieve. Keep up the good work. You'll hit the 1100 and 1200lbs clubs eventually.

                  As of right now, I'm pulling 530lbs, squatting 430lbs, and have a 340lbs pause bench (350lbs is my PR touch-and-go). My avatar picture is me pulling 500lbs for the first time a few months ago. I was actually 193lbs in there, so nearly 10lbs heavier as well. My competition PRs aren't near the same, though I'm hoping to beat all of these numbers in my next comp in October. Shooting for a 1350 total by October and 1400's by mid-next year in the 181lbs class.

                  I used to lift in high school, but that's nothing to write home about. I was still relatively small at 150lbs. I really got back into serious lifting in 2007, after a rough deployment that dropped me to around 125lbs and saw me at around 135lbs when I re-deployed a few months later. Decided it was getting a little rough rucking 60-80lbs around being so small. But, like everyone, I did mostly bro-splits and pseudo-bodybuilding/physique work and was fairly stagnant on strength gains until the last couple of years. In 2013 I started focusing on a more strength-centric/powerlifting program, and in September of 2014 I actually started to follow real programming which has seen me add 100lbs on my deadlift, 70lbs on my squat, and 30lbs on my bench press in around 6 months, at a lighter weight than when I was doing bro-splits and what not. And I haven't yet hit a plateau, even though I wasted my noob gains years ago.

                  Anyways, yeah, sleep is the most important thing. People think working out is what makes you bigger, stronger, and leaner. No, it's the recovery time and rest that you get when you sleep that makes you stronger and faster and just in general more awesome.

                  Also, if you're looking at making some serious progress, I recommend taking a look at the Bill Starr/Madcow 5x5 program and following it to the letter. You're not a noob if you're in the 1k club, so it should work out well for you.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Matchbook View Post
                    I'm pulling 530lbs, squatting 430lbs, and have a 340lbs pause bench (350lbs is my PR touch-and-go).
                    That is awesome man, I hope to get there one day. I'm currently at 405 DL, 350 squat, and 245 bench; bench has always been my weak lift, so I'm working hard on that.

                    Originally posted by Matchbook View Post
                    Also, if you're looking at making some serious progress, I recommend taking a look at the Bill Starr/Madcow 5x5 program and following it to the letter. You're not a noob if you're in the 1k club, so it should work out well for you.
                    Yeah, I started with StrongLifts 5x5 two years ago and did that for about 10 months and then got silly and decided to try some bro-splits which did absolutely nothing for me. So for the past 6 months I've been following the Westside Method and am seeing some steady gains in strength. I plan on sticking with Westside for at least another 18 months, but depending on where I'm at then, Madcow is definitely on my radar of future possibilities.

                    -John

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                      #25
                      Awesome, brotha. Stick with it. To me, there's nothing more rewarding than crushing PRs and pushing your body to it's absolute physical limit. If you're already doing Westside, I'd say that programming is way more advanced than BS/Madcow. Once I stop making any sort of gains with Madcow, I'd consider moving to conjugate training...but I'm not going to lie, I think it's pretty intimidating. Depends. I might start a Smolov cycle if I decide to get real stupid and want to hate myself for a while.

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                        #26
                        Back to the original question: After long runs/rides I do 1 scoop vanilla protein powder and 1 scoop orange Gatorade powder over ice with 12oz water blended. Tastes like a creamsicle. 125 calories, 13g protein, 17g sugar, a dose of sodium/potassium. The 1 scoop protein powder is half a serving, so you can double it for more calories/sustenance if you want a meal replacement, but I find it gets too chalky and hits an empty stomach kind of hard. The protein powder isn't about an anabolic window, it's about getting calories and increasing overall daily protein intake.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Matchbook View Post
                          Awesome, brotha. Stick with it. To me, there's nothing more rewarding than crushing PRs and pushing your body to it's absolute physical limit. If you're already doing Westside, I'd say that programming is way more advanced than BS/Madcow. Once I stop making any sort of gains with Madcow, I'd consider moving to conjugate training...but I'm not going to lie, I think it's pretty intimidating. Depends. I might start a Smolov cycle if I decide to get real stupid and want to hate myself for a while.
                          I just finished Smolov Jr for squats, which is basically just the base cycle for Smolov. I did the Bodybuilding.com Squat Everyday workout for about 3 weeks until I stalled at 325 lbs for a single (previous PR was 335 for a single), and then switched right into Smolov Jr. using 305 lbs as my 1RM. I was able to do a double of 355 lbs last Tuesday (two weeks after finishing my Smolov routine), and haven't stalled yet. Smolov is incredible. I hated every workout, and I'd rest 5-6 minutes per set, but the results are well worth the crap you go through. I'm trying to get to a 405 lb squat, and crack the 900 lb mark by the end of summer. Highly recommend Smolov Jr. for anyone that's stalling in either squats or bench, and actually has the dedication to stick to a program.

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                            #28
                            FYI drank back a Gatorade after my 16k run this am. Felt like a million bucks after. Thanks for the tips/suggestions.

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                              #29
                              Simple sugar , bit of salt and lemon in water is best.
                              Eat what is good for your health but
                              Wear what is good for your and others eyes

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