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    I'd dare to describe myself as a fairly slender guy (5'9" tall, 37" chest, 30" natural waist, usually wear 36R jackets and XS or S). The BB ESF shirts work really well for me in my regular shirt size, 14.5x32. The ESF shirts are comparable in fit to most true "slim fit" shirts I've worn.
    Ben

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      The fit of a shirt is highly variable due to how different everyone's body is and how slim-fitting each person chooses to wear their shirt. When it comes to other articles of clothing (like a blazer or pants) I think people are more willing to overlook minor fit differences than they are with shirts, where a lot of guys want the fit really dialed in perfectly. I agree with Hornsup84, in that if you require additional tailoring for OTR shirts, than it may be worth your while to get a high quality (i.e. Ratio, although there are other options) MTM shirt. The CT Slim Fit is comfortable for me and fits fairly well, but I get some extra fabric that billows around the waist and lower back, so I ordered a few ESF from their current $30 sale. Should I have ordered one and then decided if I liked the fit before buying a bunch? Yeah, probably. However, I'm a pretty common size and doubt I'd have trouble unloading them here or elsewhere or just returning them if they don't fit. Based on CT's sizing guide they should work out - here's hoping they do! We should probably put this thread back on track - any hot deals out there today?!

      I noticed that on the CT website, in addition to the shirt sale going on, there are also some of their "handmade" ties marked down to $59 - including some made in Italy grenadines (not sure of the exact weave on some of them). I picked one up to check it out (grey with white spots).

      Comment


        Originally posted by hornsup84 View Post
        For Diversification, I think the issue may be that the BB "Fits Body Chest" may be a jacket size measurement, not the actually chest measurement in inches (which is typically smaller)...?
        While you may be correct, it doesn't make a difference. Jackets are sizes are labeled by the chest size they'll fit. A 40R is meant to fit a 40" chest. No matter how you spin it, 8" is too much excess fabric in the chest if you're talking about an Extra Slim Fit.


        EDIT: Jamie is right, we should get back on topic (deals).
        My measurements, for context--> Body Type: Slim/Skinny |​ Weight: 175 lbs | Height: 6'1" | Neck: 16” | Chest: 40” | Waist: 33.5” | Shoulder: 18.75” | Sleeve: 35.5” | Bicep: 12.75” | Wrist: 6.75”

        Comment


          Originally posted by Jamie View Post
          When it comes to other articles of clothing (like a blazer or pants) I think people are more willing to overlook minor fit differences than they are with shirts, where a lot of guys want the fit really dialed in perfectly.
          Personally, I am much more demanding about how a jacket fits than how a shirt fits. I will overlook some bagginess in the body or sleeves of a shirt, especially a dress shirt, since I will generally wear most shirts under a jacket or sweater anyway. But I won't even bother with a jacket that doesn't fit near-perfectly off the rack.
          Ben

          Comment


            Originally posted by diversification View Post
            While you may be correct, it doesn't make a difference. Jackets are sizes are labeled by the chest size they'll fit. A 40R is meant to fit a 40" chest. No matter how you spin it, 8" is too much excess fabric in the chest if you're talking about an Extra Slim Fit.
            You're still talking about a shirt's fit based on your assumptions about some measurements on their website. Pretty silly to get on a high horse in terms of criticizing the way a shirt fits if you haven't even tried on the shirts in question. As I mentioned above, I find the BB ESF fits pretty true and pretty comparable to most other brands' slim fits. My shirts definitely don't have 8 extra inches of material in the chest or waist.
            Ben

            Comment


              Originally posted by LesserBlackDog View Post
              You're still talking about a shirt's fit based on your assumptions about some measurements on their website. Pretty silly to get on a high horse in terms of criticizing the way a shirt fits if you haven't even tried on the shirts in question. As I mentioned above, I find the BB ESF fits pretty true and pretty comparable to most other brands' slim fits. My shirts definitely don't have 8 extra inches of material in the chest or waist.
              I haven't tried mainline BB ESF, but I've tried the 346 (outlet) line and my experiences lines up with the assumptions I've made (the 346 ESF had even more than 8" excess in the chest, but one would assume that the mainline is slightly more trim). I'm curious about which of my assumptions are you taking issue with, btw. BB is respected because of their history of quality and consistency - what reason would I have to believe that their website is wrong? I don't think there's an issue with my logic concerning the chest measurements based on what's in the table; a 5" drop is probably a minimum for a shirt that claims to be extra slim.

              Regarding your personal experience, it makes sense that you haven’t had the same issues that many of us have. At a 14.5” neck, and using the same calculations that I used, the chest on your shirt would be 42”, and you stated that your chest measures 37”. You would only have 5” excess fabric, not the 8” that I experience. I’m not saying you aren’t slender, but it doesn’t sound like you’re ‘extra slim’ (ie. skinny), and neither is the ESF at BB, based on the available information.
              Last edited by diversification; December 6, 2013, 01:24 PM.
              My measurements, for context--> Body Type: Slim/Skinny |​ Weight: 175 lbs | Height: 6'1" | Neck: 16” | Chest: 40” | Waist: 33.5” | Shoulder: 18.75” | Sleeve: 35.5” | Bicep: 12.75” | Wrist: 6.75”

              Comment


                I'm just not sure where you're getting your "calculation" that there is 5" or 8" of extra fabric in the chest of a shirt when the BB size guide doesn't mention anything of that sort.

                The chest on my ESF shirts are certainly not 42". I haven't measured them and don't know their measurements off the top of my head, but I do know the heavy-duty Filson coat I wore for today's -20° temps has a chest measurement of 40". I bought it pre-owned on eBay a couple months ago and double-checked the description measurements when I received it. That coat certainly doesn't fit anywhere near as slim or snug as a dress shirt. If I had to guess, I'd say my BB shirts' actual chest measurements are along the lines of 38".

                I don't know whether BB's "fit guide" is especially useful or accurate, but the extrapolations you are attempting to make are certainly not accurate. You seem to want to declare the BB ESF to be unsuitable for slim people based on your assumptions of how much extra room the shirt "must" have in the chest, rather than from actually having tried the shirts out. To me, that makes little sense. Obviously, you are free to make your own decisions on what to purchase on any criterion you like. I just think it's a little misleading for you to opine on the fit of shirts you evidently haven't actually tried for yourself.
                Ben

                Comment


                  The Gatsby OCBD i got from BB was slim fit and it fit me great. There definitely wasn't an extra 5" or 8" material around the waist. The 2 dress shirts I returned though did have a bunch of extra material around the arms.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Vicious49 View Post
                    The Gatsby OCBD i got from BB was slim fit and it fit me great. There definitely wasn't an extra 5" or 8" material around the waist. The 2 dress shirts I returned though did have a bunch of extra material around the arms.
                    The Gatsby seems to fall somewhere between a BB SF and an ESF. I feel that based on trying on SF and ESF shirts in a BB B&M; but I'm also fairly certain I read others' similar thoughts on a few sites (Style Forum and/or Ask Andy, most likely). I can't say for certain, as I have not comparatively measured them or laid them over each other to check. It just *seems* to me like it's somewhere in the middle of the two fits.

                    Thing with their ESF is that the armholes are quite a bit slimmer/tighter too, which tends to raise the sleeves up a notch. The SA even told me in-store that detail, and he was right. In a SF I could go with a 34 length, but in an ESF I needed to go to a 35. My Gatsby(s) are 35, and that really is *right* at the point of "uh-oh... better not tumble-dry this puppy."

                    Just my personal take from owning/wearing some and trying on some others in-store.

                    Comment


                      Ben, the size guide gives the waist measurement. The standard drop on an extra slim or slim shirt is usually right around 5". Add 5" to the listed waist sizes and that should give you the chest measurements. Subtract the shirt's calculated chest measurement from the wearer's body measurement and you end up with the amount of excess material (or my "calculations"). I explained this, albeit slightly less verbosely, in the first post I made concerning these shirts.

                      As far as your accusations that I'm off base making these assumptions, you've done little to demonstrate that I'm incorrect except rant that I haven't tried one on and that you have (you've guessed at the measurement of the chest, but frankly, if the shirt only had an inch of excess, as you've guessed, you'd probably have a tough time moving or breathing in it). I've used actual numbers that BB has provided, a reasonable shirting assumption that an extra slim shirt would have a 5" drop, my personal experience with their outlet brand, the common assumption that the mainline is slightly slimmer than the outlet, BB's known reputation to be overly generous with material, and the opinion that their ESF really isn't extra slim - an opinion that I've seen expressed very frequently across a number of forums including SF, AAAT, MFA, and our very own dappered threads.

                      Maybe I'm wrong and maybe you're right, but I'm not basing what I'm saying off of outlandish assumptions as you seem be suggesting.
                      Last edited by diversification; December 6, 2013, 03:18 PM.
                      My measurements, for context--> Body Type: Slim/Skinny |​ Weight: 175 lbs | Height: 6'1" | Neck: 16” | Chest: 40” | Waist: 33.5” | Shoulder: 18.75” | Sleeve: 35.5” | Bicep: 12.75” | Wrist: 6.75”

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by yoyorobbo View Post
                        The Gatsby seems to fall somewhere between a BB SF and an ESF. I feel that based on trying on SF and ESF shirts in a BB B&M; but I'm also fairly certain I read others' similar thoughts on a few sites (Style Forum and/or Ask Andy, most likely). I can't say for certain, as I have not comparatively measured them or laid them over each other to check. It just *seems* to me like it's somewhere in the middle of the two fits.

                        Thing with their ESF is that the armholes are quite a bit slimmer/tighter too, which tends to raise the sleeves up a notch. The SA even told me in-store that detail, and he was right. In a SF I could go with a 34 length, but in an ESF I needed to go to a 35. My Gatsby(s) are 35, and that really is *right* at the point of "uh-oh... better not tumble-dry this puppy."

                        Just my personal take from owning/wearing some and trying on some others in-store.
                        Thanks for that info. That means normally I would need their ESF shirts. It was throwing me off that the Gatsby OCBD was slim fit but so were the other 2 Gatsby dress shirts but the dress shirts sleeves were super billowy. After wash/dry shrinkage the OCBD in a 15.5/34 fit me perfectly. Hopefully I'd get the same results from their standard ESF OCBD.

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                          STP threw some more Red Wing boots up today. I may or may not have just bought two pairs (875 and Beckman Moc Toe) 30% off for about $235.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by diversification View Post
                            Ben, the size guide gives the waist measurement. The standard drop on an extra slim or slim shirt is usually right around 5". Add 5" to the listed waist sizes and that should give you the chest measurements. Subtract the shirt chest measurement from the chest body measurement and there you have my "calculations". I explained this, albeit slightly less verbosely, in the first post I made concerning these shirts.

                            As far as your accusations that I'm off base making these assumptions, you've done little to demonstrate that I'm incorrect except rant that I haven't tried one on and that you have and you've guessed at the measurement of the chest. I am using actual numbers that BB has provided, a reasonable shirting assumption that an extra slim shirt would have a 5" drop, my personal experience with their outlet brand, the common assumption that the mainline is slightly slimmer than the outlet, BB's known reputation to be overly generous with material, and the opinion that their ESF really isn't extra slim - an opinion that I've seen expressed very frequently across a number of forums including SF, AAAT, MFA, and our very own dappered threads.

                            Maybe I'm wrong and maybe you're right, but I'm not basing what I'm saying off of outlandish assumptions as you seem be suggesting.
                            I guess I'll continue "ranting" if sharing my experience with a particular product is what constitutes "ranting" these days. My job here isn't to demonstrate that you're incorrect. When people are incorrect on a particular point due to a lack of first-hand experience with the product at issue, their credibility on that point is generally self-evident. All I can say is that your description of the way BB's ESF shirts fit is based on data that have seemingly no connection to real shirt measurements or real human beings' experiences with the actual shirts. Other people can take the value of your guesstimated measurements however they choose. Personally, I assign them little value based on the fact they do not at all align with my experience as an owner of several BB ESF shirts. I can certainly provide actual measurements of my shirts later on tonight, since you seem not to give any credit to my earlier observation that the shirts are at least slimmer than my 40", heavy-duty winter coat.

                            If you still think your theoretical, guesstimated measurements more accurately describe the fit of shirts you evidently haven't encountered in person, versus the descriptions and experiences offered by people who have actually owned and worn the shirts... well, that's your prerogative, I guess.

                            BB ESF shirts are a standard slim fit. Are they a super-duper-skinny fit, H&M Euro style shirt? No. No one who has recommended them here has ever claimed that. I guess you would probably be disappointed by the fit of the shirts if that was your expectation. Rather, BB ESF shirts fit similar to my other "slim" or "tailored" or "tailored slim" or "athletic" fit shirts from Neiman Marcus, Gap, Banana Republic, J.Crew, Nordstrom, etc. If you know your numbered shirt size in those brands, you will have a pretty good idea of what size shirt you need in BB ESF.

                            I simply can't wrap my head around the fact that you are seemingly so hostile toward a product that you evidently have no first-hand experience with. My recommendation to you would be to actually try some of the shirts on before you make judgments about the way they fit.
                            Ben

                            Comment


                              Seriously guys? Enough.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by alanm View Post
                                STP threw some more Red Wing boots up today. I may or may not have just bought two pairs (875 and Beckman Moc Toe) 30% off for about $235.
                                9029 or 9030?

                                i grabbed a pair of the cigar 9030s, eagerly waiting to see how it is in person!

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